MC5 and Protools 8HD multi mic tracks

[antonis]

Originally Posted by Chief Technician

My apologies for getting stuck in an endless loop here. I see no mention in the Symphony v6 guide about exporting an AAF and including media that is in a bin and not used in the sequence being exported.

You will have to get the audio files from the Avid editor somehow (Finder copy?) and then use match criteria in Pro Tools to see if you can conform these audio files based upon what you have in the AAF.

Jonathan, I've got absolutely no idea why one would be looking in the Symphony V6 guide. The edit is coming from Media Composer 5 (MC5???).

I was just about to write something rude about the Avid expertise here but I'll stick to my guns. Perhaps you might know something I don't know.

[Chief Technician]

Originally Posted by antonis

Jonathan, I've got absolutely no idea why one would be looking in the Symphony V6 guide. The edit is coming from Media Composer 5 (MC5???).

This was the oldest guide I had available at the time. Symphony and Media Composer were basically the same application. In the context of creating AAFs, they both operate the same way.

Originally Posted by antonis

I was just about to write something rude about the Avid expertise here but I'll stick to my guns. Perhaps you might know something I don't know.

I am not claiming to know something you do not. I just took a look at the MC5 guide and it appears that AAF exports did not change in this regard between v5 and v6.

I will stand by my position that your Avid editor will have to sync up these files to tracks in MC in order for them to come across via AAF. Finder-level copy will only work if there is a match criteria that you can actually match on after importing the AAF with boom track into Pro Tools.

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by antonis

Hey Frank,

Cheers for the input. As per initial postWell, I cross checked with the editor's files and none of the alternate source audio tracks made it to my Audio Files folder.

I can't remember the match criteria now but just take my word for it. Alt source not in the Audio files folder and subsequently not in the regions list.



Simply, this is what I am asking for here; Just in case I need to explain myself, would you know how to make referenced AAF, Frank?

Not sure I understand what you're saying when you talk about "editor's files". Is that the AVID media or the AAF?

Anyway, regardless what you did. Here's what you should do:

- Get a referenced AAF as in non-embedded. Your editor should know what that means. It's a small AAF just pointing to the original AVID-media. Also select "copy media" so the clips used in your sequence get copied over. You might as well copy the entire AVID audio media for future versions instead of moving media every time you get a new version.

-Keep the AVID media in a dedicated folder. Don't move it to the PT audio files folder.

-Open AAF and re-link to your copy of the AVID media.

-Now turn "field recorder guide" option on for all the AAF tracks.
-PT will ask for "areas to search". Now point PT to ONLY the original BWAVs (not the AVID media).
-Make sure any copy on import options are turned off in the PT prefs.
-Now open the match criteria options and make sure you have "tape to sound roll" checked as per this thread:

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=333473

All else you can set to your taste. But try only "tape to sound roll" and TC checked.

Now expand to track on just one of the AAF tracks to see if it works.

PT should now find the matching channels in the original BWAVs if your recordist did his job correctly.

If it works. expand the other tracks.

Done. Result is: alt channels layed in from the poly BWAVs without any additional audio created in your audio files folder (unless the AAF contained mixed Fs and PT dumped the converted music and fx in the audio-files folder. but this doesn't matter for the conform)

Now you have to do some clean-up and get rid of all the redundant clips and mix-down channels.

Frank.

[antonis]

Originally Posted by Chief Technician

This was the oldest guide I had available at the time. Symphony and Media Composer were basically the same application. In the context of creating AAFs, they both operate the same way.

I will stand by my position that your Avid editor will have to sync up these files to tracks in MC in order for them to come across via AAF. Finder-level copy will only work if there is a match criteria that you can actually match on after importing the AAF with boom track into Pro Tools.

Cool Jonathan, thanks for that. I think you might be right and that is the best/ easiest solution.

Thanks for the effort man.

[antonis]

Originally Posted by Frank Kruse

Not sure I understand what you're saying when you talk about "editor's files". Is that the AVID media or the AAF?

Yup, apologies about the hasty posting that day, it wasn't that clear. I actually meant, the audio files that came out from the AAF export (they were not embedded).

Originally Posted by Frank Kruse

-Make sure any copy on import options are turned off in the PT prefs.

I will assume that is because the copy will clear out some metadata.

Many thanks for the effort Frank, much appreciated!

My issue still here is that the two AAF exports that I got so far:

• did not include any alt source sound
• the exports I received where referenced,
• the alt sound sources where synced in the rushes but not in the timeline,
• the Avid Media Folder did not include the alt sound sources - to apply any match criteria.
• and the editor is not 100% there with exporting.

Hence, I thought I'd ask around here to see if anyone knew what to do while on MC5 and performing the exports.

I think a way round it (before I do get the editor to sync the cut with all mics) is to manually import all the alt sound source files in the bin, highlight them and then go for the AAF export).

But hey, I shouldn't be doing his job and perhaps this question is for a Media Composer Forum and not here!

[kd_special]

I can tell you from my experience with importing OMFs and AAFS from avid editors.

You will not be able to re sync the files. Chief is right. Your editor will need to get that stuff lined up for you and then make a new AAF.

I have gone nuts with editors over the years about not picking which mics to cut with. instead to leave all the sun audio in tact and just only listen to the lav mics etc.

The clients I work for all use MC 5 and 6. I get them to make tracks called "Junk tracks" These are tracks below in their timeline that they don't listen to but keep the audio synced up with what they are cutting. So they usually hear the lav or boom from one camera and then leave everything else for me in the bottom tracks.

When I import there AAFs or OMFs I get multiple tracks from them. for example

DIAL.aaf
Music.aaf
VOGuide.aaf
Junk.aaf

it can sometimes total 24 tracks the max for an avid to have up. It can be tedious to sort through. Hopefully if its a decent editor the lavs and booms are on the top and all the B roll is down at the bottom in the junk. My editor then sorts through all of that stuff into my template. Which has Dial tracks BG dial track music SFX etc. as well as Junk tracks. then i get it from him edited and mix it.

That is the only way I know of to get the mics you want. Before any new project I go over this method with the editor it saves a whole whack load of time in the end. Some will fight it (for the sake that an audio guy it telling them how to workflow their timeline) and some editors understand why its important.

And if an editor has not done what I asked or done a poor job. I have to write a log email with Time codes points saying this...

01:05:06:23 - 01:06:23:20 "Need all Lavs"

and they go back through the show and find what I need sometimes going back to their source material XD Cam.

Also if they have to go back and re-sync things don't expect it to always be frame accurate its a painful task that most video editors don't love so they just throw it up in the timeline. Or better yet their assistant throws it up in the timeline and doesn't give a dammm how close sync wise it is.

Good luck

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by antonis

Yup, apologies about the hasty posting that day, it wasn't that clear. I actually meant, the audio files that came out from the AAF export (they were not embedded).



I will assume that is because the copy will clear out some metadata.

Many thanks for the effort Frank, much appreciated!

My issue still here is that the two AAF exports that I got so far:

• did not include any alt source sound
• the exports I received where referenced,
• the alt sound sources where synced in the rushes but not in the timeline,
• the Avid Media Folder did not include the alt sound sources - to apply any match criteria.
• and the editor is not 100% there with exporting.

Hence, I thought I'd ask around here to see if anyone knew what to do while on MC5 and performing the exports.

I think a way round it (before I do get the editor to sync the cut with all mics) is to manually import all the alt sound source files in the bin, highlight them and then go for the AAF export).

But hey, I shouldn't be doing his job and perhaps this question is for a Media Composer Forum and not here!

Like I wrote before:

You need to expand the AAF using the original BWAVs not the AAF media. It's pretty logical that there are no alts since the AAF only contains the audio they used in the time-line. The missing channels will be pulled from the original BWAVs. That the whole point about the field recorder workflow.

Read what I posted again and try that. Also maybe also provide the unknown info from my previous posting.

Did you use a referenced AAF? Did you expand to the BWAVs? Did you use the setting I provided?

Before you've used the correct workflow it doesn't make sense to look for the error on the MC's side.

frank.

[antonis]

I hear you Frank. What you've been saying all along is to fetch the sound files from the Avid Media folder, when I was thinking the folder that the AAF copies all the audio files from the timeline.

In addition, I was stuck up in my question of how to achieve this via the export option not thinking of going and do it manually.

At any rate, at the time of the last posting, I did ask the editor to place the alt source sound and get over with it, he re-exported the AAF and everything is sorted.

[C]

Just to add a couple of other things.

1 - The Field Recorder Workflow in PT8 is very different than in PT10 and 11 in that ALL source BWF's will need to be in your PT clip list. PT10 added the ability to look outside of the session file for matching media.

2 - Another simple and pretty efficient workaround is to use Ediload by Sounds in Sync to generate F.R.W. compatible timeline regions (from an EDL) in PT that you could then match the original sound rolls to. I've found that particularly with embedded AAF/OMF that this workaround allows you to utilize F.R.W. where you wouldn't otherwise be able to.

Good luck

C