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  #1  
Old 10-09-2011, 04:14 AM
MR290378 MR290378 is offline
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Location: Poland
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Default Eleven Rack: Headphone Output Impedance & Amp Output Tech Specs

Hi Guys,

I am trying to get some information on the impedance of the Eleven Rack Headphone Output. Since I had very unsatisfying results using my Sennheiser HD 650s with the latest generation MBox Headphone Outputs (due to their low impedance) I would like to know the tech specs of the Eleven Rack before buying it...

Please excuse my second - very naive - question and remark: I understand the "Amp-Output" of the Eleven Rack provides an unamplified signal, i.e. I cannot simply connect the Eleven Rack with a cabinet. To me connecting the Eleven Rack with a Combo or Preamp does not seem to make much sense as long as you cannot entirely bypass the Combo's/or Preamp's specific colour. If my assumption is correct then there is clearly an open niche in the market! There should be neutral amplifying hardware solution that works as a link between the Eleven Rack and a hardware cabinet. The advice generally given does not convince me (listen to the Eleven Rack via Monitor Speakers or a PA). In my view guitar players want to use the flexibility provided by emulated solutions but also stay as close as possible to their traditional set up. And, that should motivate e.g. AVID to not only provide an "unamplified amp simulation" but also to offer the hardware that translates these amp simulations into a traditional guitar set up, e.g. by hooking up the eleven rack up with a real hardware cabinet. In other words there seems to be a need for something I would call "The Eleven Rack Amplifier Head" to complete the existing product. Please correct me if I am wrong!

Any clarification would be very much appreciated.
Cheers,
Matt
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2011, 06:55 AM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Default Re: Eleven Rack: Headphone Output Impedance & Amp Output Tech Specs

Power amp...

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/po...rengine60.html
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Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

Just rockin'...what more is there?

Bill in Pittsburgh
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2011, 07:03 AM
madgt621 madgt621 is offline
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Location: Current: Ikebukuro, Tokyo, Hails from: San Francisco
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Default Re: Eleven Rack: Headphone Output Impedance & Amp Output Tech Specs

along with the Tech 21, there is also:

A solution from 3rdPower

http://www.3rdpower.com/product_hlh_sv3015.htm

Various solutions from Atomic Amps (aka Fractal)

http://www.atomicamps.com/products.htm

And in one of the videos put out by Avid, Sean Halley is using a Mesa power amp.

So to answer your question, yes.

As far as headphone out impedance, I can't say. But they work fine with my Beyer Dynamic DT770 Pro's. Even though they pump a little lower than most headphones, if you are maxing them out, you're destroying your ears.
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Eleven Rack
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2011, 09:04 PM
Fezzler Fezzler is offline
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Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 313
Default Re: Eleven Rack: Headphone Output Impedance & Amp Output Tech Specs

I mainly work in studio and home setting. I wish someone would make a small power amp for that setting to use with the 11R. Sounds great with my Rokit G2 6s. But a small tube amp would be cool.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2011, 10:26 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Posts: 11,598
Default Re: Eleven Rack: Headphone Output Impedance & Amp Output Tech Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR290378 View Post
Hi Guys,

I am trying to get some information on the impedance of the Eleven Rack Headphone Output. Since I had very unsatisfying results using my Sennheiser HD 650s with the latest generation MBox Headphone Outputs (due to their low impedance) I would like to know the tech specs of the Eleven Rack before buying it...

Please excuse my second - very naive - question and remark: I understand the "Amp-Output" of the Eleven Rack provides an unamplified signal, i.e. I cannot simply connect the Eleven Rack with a cabinet. To me connecting the Eleven Rack with a Combo or Preamp does not seem to make much sense as long as you cannot entirely bypass the Combo's/or Preamp's specific colour. If my assumption is correct then there is clearly an open niche in the market! There should be neutral amplifying hardware solution that works as a link between the Eleven Rack and a hardware cabinet. The advice generally given does not convince me (listen to the Eleven Rack via Monitor Speakers or a PA). In my view guitar players want to use the flexibility provided by emulated solutions but also stay as close as possible to their traditional set up. And, that should motivate e.g. AVID to not only provide an "unamplified amp simulation" but also to offer the hardware that translates these amp simulations into a traditional guitar set up, e.g. by hooking up the eleven rack up with a real hardware cabinet. In other words there seems to be a need for something I would call "The Eleven Rack Amplifier Head" to complete the existing product. Please correct me if I am wrong!

Any clarification would be very much appreciated.
Cheers,
Matt
My preferred headphones for listening are Sennheiser HD600 and the Eleven Rack has problems driving them well. When I just want to operate on headphones I run the mains out to an Corda headphone amp, night and day difference. I love the Eleven Rack but I suspect the headphone stage on the Eleven Rack is built down to the same cost-cutting standard as the headphone stage on the Mbox.

Ah no we don't need Eleven Rack dedicated amps, you just need to buy a good and powerful full range cab and a modern solid state amp, or good powered full range speakers. Or a good clean valve amp if that tickles your fancy. All available from many suppliers today.


Darryl
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2011, 10:47 PM
adamqlw adamqlw is offline
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 496
Default Re: Eleven Rack: Headphone Output Impedance & Amp Output Tech Specs

I'm using a QSC K10 for amplification at the moment. I don't miss a regular guitar amp one bit.
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2011, 03:08 AM
MR290378 MR290378 is offline
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Location: Poland
Posts: 85
Default Re: Eleven Rack: Headphone Output Impedance & Amp Output Tech Specs

So I understand the 11R seems to also have Kindergarten style headphone outputs...

From your comments, I guess ordering a patch bay along with the 11R seems to make a lot of sense ... (In particular, since there seems to be no button on the 11R to mute the main outs).

When it comes to the cabinets: Many thanks for your input. Unfortunately, apart from the tech 21 none of the stuff you recommended seems to be available in Europe. But I will contact them individually and see what the options are.
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2011, 11:19 AM
TieDyedDevil TieDyedDevil is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 502
Default Re: Eleven Rack: Headphone Output Impedance & Amp Output Tech Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR290378 View Post
Hi Guys,

I am trying to get some information on the impedance of the Eleven Rack Headphone Output. Since I had very unsatisfying results using my Sennheiser HD 650s with the latest generation MBox Headphone Outputs (due to their low impedance) I would like to know the tech specs of the Eleven Rack before buying it...

Please excuse my second - very naive - question and remark: I understand the "Amp-Output" of the Eleven Rack provides an unamplified signal, i.e. I cannot simply connect the Eleven Rack with a cabinet. To me connecting the Eleven Rack with a Combo or Preamp does not seem to make much sense as long as you cannot entirely bypass the Combo's/or Preamp's specific colour. If my assumption is correct then there is clearly an open niche in the market! There should be neutral amplifying hardware solution that works as a link between the Eleven Rack and a hardware cabinet. The advice generally given does not convince me (listen to the Eleven Rack via Monitor Speakers or a PA). In my view guitar players want to use the flexibility provided by emulated solutions but also stay as close as possible to their traditional set up. And, that should motivate e.g. AVID to not only provide an "unamplified amp simulation" but also to offer the hardware that translates these amp simulations into a traditional guitar set up, e.g. by hooking up the eleven rack up with a real hardware cabinet. In other words there seems to be a need for something I would call "The Eleven Rack Amplifier Head" to complete the existing product. Please correct me if I am wrong!

Any clarification would be very much appreciated.
Cheers,
Matt
It looks like a lot of the Sennhieser cans have high impedance (300 to 600 ohm) drivers. You're going to need a dedicated headphone amp to drive those. Probably not the answer you want to hear, but there it is...

Consumer and prosumer audio gear almost always assumes a much lower headphone impedance. I had a nice set of AKG K240 DF cans that I eventually ditched because none of the gear I use would drive it to a reasonable listening level.

As far as the power amp and cab goes, you really don't need anything specific to the Eleven Rack. The best (as in: most in keeping with the designer's intentions) results are obtained with a FRFR chain, whether that's done via direct recording or by playing through a *neutral* amp and speakers.

*This* guitarist prefers to carry the Eleven Rack by itself and plug into the house PA wherever I play. My days of carrying my own amps and cabs are over - and good riddance to those days!

If you must have a more traditional-looking rig, then by all means put one together. There's a world of options out there. Pick your favorite cab, find a suitable power amp, set up your Eleven Rack patches for the sounds you want, and you're done! No need to wait for an Eleven Rack-specific amp and cab... (In fact, I'd advise against waiting; I suspect it will be a *very* long wait.)
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2011, 05:18 PM
adamqlw adamqlw is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack: Headphone Output Impedance & Amp Output Tech Specs

And then suddenly I remembered it does kind of exist...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQpTXDpbdnY

But I'm sticking with my QSC 10 :)
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  #10  
Old 10-11-2011, 04:38 AM
eman22 eman22 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Elk Grove Village, USA
Posts: 2
Default Re: Eleven Rack: Headphone Output Impedance & Amp Output Tech Specs

Rocktron Velocity Power AMP

problem solved !
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