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  #1  
Old 12-29-2004, 07:07 PM
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Default Bass Management

For those of you mixing in surround (5.1), what are you using for bass management if your monitoring system doesn't have it built-in?

Thanks for reading!
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Old 12-29-2004, 09:14 PM
filmixer filmixer is offline
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Default Re: Bass Management

If you're mixing "In the Box", the M360 Surround Manager that's part of Waves' Surround 360 bundle work's beautifully. I love mine. You can also save settings for different monitors in the "Settings" folder, just like with any plugin. There are lots of great tools in this bundle.
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Old 12-30-2004, 01:25 AM
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Default Re: Bass Management

hi chief,

well, i was using the studio comm technoligies 78/79 box. it has built in bass management and a lot of nice features. but, it doesn't have a switch to turn off bass redirect. so i got a schematic to disable it and the rolloffs, and will use the genelc sub, which allows you to shut it on and off. (i know you said other than the monitor...) studio comm makes a box with no redirect and then a bass manager box. however, there boxes can sound a little hissy... but it is analog. and kinda reasonably priced.

a lot of people use the tascam box and like it. but it is digital. and kinda reasonably priced.

hope that helps somewhat.
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Bass Management

filmixer - thanks for the tip on WAVES. The question now is do I have any demo time remaining for WAVES plugs on my system? I'm not keen on buying the 360 bundle for a single project.

minister - why did you mod your studio comm technologies box? I believe the Tascam box you are referring to is the DS-7.1 (or something darn close to that), yes?

Thanks for the input. I'm currently looking for a sub to complement my existing Westlake's, but of course I'll need bass management, a volume controller, etc. I picked up a copy of Holman's book, and have to finish reading it over my extended weekend. ;-)

Thanks guys!
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:53 PM
georgia georgia is offline
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Default Re: Bass Management

we use the tascam DSM7.1 works great, not too costly... It has various bass management options and downmix options... But, we also have genelecs so we have the bass re-direct setup on a switch... so we can monitor with or without bass management and with or without re-direct... We us do not use bass managment for 5.1 mixes and we turn off re-direct during sound design and mixing.. but we check all options during printmastering on the monitor side so assure that there are no gotchyas with a downmix or any home bass re-direct issues.


Chief, if you want to drop by and play with the monitor system gear we are using , feel free to drop by..

cheers
georgia
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Old 12-30-2004, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: Bass Management

Quote:
minister - why did you mod your studio comm technologies box? I believe the Tascam box you are referring to is the DS-7.1 (or something darn close to that), yes?
there was no way to turn bass redirect off. in a cinema, they do not have bass redirect (well, in some of the guerilla art and festival house, yeah they do becasue they can only afford a conumer 5.1 amp). need to have it off for film mixing. then back on for dvd release. the studio comm was analog. the tascam is digital. i think georigia can explain it, as can some of your other learned new yorkers.
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Old 12-31-2004, 06:00 AM
Richard Fairbanks Richard Fairbanks is offline
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Default Re: Bass Management

The Tascam is digital processing, with both analog and AES digital outs built in, or you can use an expansion card of your choice (analog, AES, ADAT, TDIF). The AES outs can be pre-volume knob for metering purposes, or post volume knob to feed your speakers; analog outs are always post volume. For inputs, there are two 8 channel paths available, and a button on the front selects either/or. You cannot hear them combined, they are designed to be used as pec/direct (master recorder output/console output). Inputs can be TDIF, ADAT, or whatever card is in a dedicated expansion slot. I have an analog card on one of the inputs and use TDIF on the other, I believe georgia has an AES card. There is also a switchable insert path, which can be ADAT, AES, or another expansion slot for the other choices. This is where you might want to put a 4:2:4 or AC3 encode/decode path. It is easily switchable in and out, but via a menu setting instead of a front panel button. I use the insert extensively to check downmix results. There are plenty of configurable parameters, but some parameters only have limited choices. Download a manual before purchase, check out which signal format is built in for each io path, read about parameters carefully. Bass management and bass redirect functions can be turned on and off via front panel button. The gain structure of the LFE channel changes if management is turned on or off, so you have to be sure you know exactly how it is set and what the changes are.

On the whole I have been happy with it. Like everything, there are ups and downs. If you use it analog in and out, you can put it into a double-speed mode, where it runs the converters at 88.2 or 96 locked to your 44.1 or 48 clock. The converters sound better this way. The worst feature is that it has NO internal clock. It only locks to word clock or a digital input, which kind of precludes an analog only use. The second worse feature is that when your wordclock changes sample rate you must manually select the sample rate in a menu. If the menu setting and wordclock rate do not match (or is not a double multiple), the box mutes. In other words, switch from 44.1 to 48 and you must change the menu setting to hear audio. That sucks. The third worst feature is the way bass redirect changes the LFE channel gain.
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Old 12-31-2004, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Bass Management

Looking at the Tascam manual, I can see why you have those 3 complaints. At least the audio is muted with a sample rate mismatch. A mismatched MicroLynx would create hell (I've been there more than once...one of the many reasons for getting SYNC I/Os over here).
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Old 01-26-2005, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: Bass Management

First, I'd like to thank Georgia for taking the time to give me a demo of the Tascam DS-M7.1. I now have one, and am pleased with it thus far.

I was a bit disappointed that Holman's book doesn't talk explicitly about how to calibrate the LFE channel. Thank you, Dr. Sound, for the link to Oswinski's article, for it told me how to calibrate the sub (-20dBFS pink @ 89dB SPL C weighted, slow response).

The pink noise generator built into the DS-M7.1 made calibration simple (though a pink noise signal generator in PT would've been just as painless). Amazingly, my Hafler amps don't go to -infinity, so I had to utilize the trim funciton on the Tascam to make my SPL meter read 85dB when the display on the Tascam indicated 85dB.

Now, onto a nagging issue with the Tascam.

Quote:
The AES outs can be pre-volume knob for metering purposes, or post volume knob to feed your speakers
Maybe I'm reading the manual incorrectly, or simply expecting too much, but I thought that if the AES outs were set to post that the meters would reflect any bass management, etc. processing in the signal chain. When I set the unit to post, my meters go dead, even though I certainly hear audio. Is it not possible to drive my digital Dorrough meters with the setting at post?

Thanks to those who have (re)-directed me in the right direction.
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  #10  
Old 01-27-2005, 08:27 AM
Richard Fairbanks Richard Fairbanks is offline
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Default Re: Bass Management

I would expect them to drop to a much lower level, but not to go dead! They are post-volume knob, after all, so the audio levels will most likely be much, much lower.
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