What does the length of a midi cymbal note really do?

[DC-Choppah]

I am working with the studio drum kit in the Pro Tools sampler Structure. But I have heard the same effects in other MIDI drum kits.

I sometimes will hear the cymbal crash sort of drop down in volume unnaturally. But I can go in manually and expand the bad crash note to make it a little bit longer and then the crash is smooth with a natural die out.

Just wondering if anyone knows about the guts of the thing, what exactly the length of a MIDI note controls on a crash. I could learn to play it correctly if I understood.

It's not like the crash stops ever at the end of the note. I mean the sound tapers off slowly. But the MIDI note length is doing something.

[Mark Ziebarth]

Hi,
it depends...on some things. The sample player you use for playing back the drums is responsible for how the MIDI data is interpreted. Drum samples are often played back in a "one shot" called playback mode. That means once triggered by a MIDI note the whole sample will be played back, even if the MIDI note is very short.
If the normal sample playback mode is chosen the length of the MIDI note determines if the whole sample will be played back or if it stops earlier. But a dedicated release time in the samplers envelope settings can undermine what you do with the length of the MIDI note.
So the MIDI data controls only what the playback device allows to control.

Best

Mark

[DC-Choppah]

OK cool.

I never thought of fiddling with the amplitude envelope for the drum kit, but I see now I can play with the envelope for drums too. Thanks for that.

So I set the enveloped to all 0% in Structure which is now applying no amplitude change to the crash sample. So I guess that means I am just triggering the sample.

It seems that once the crash is about a quarter note long it dies out normally. But less than that and it can have a weird little drop out, sort of like it is ducking.

It seems to me that if you want crashes to sound natural, the note needs to have a certain length, like a quarter note.

[DC-Choppah]

There is apparently more to this.

I just found a spot where the crash cuts out no matter how long I make the note.

But if I start playing from right before the crash then it is fine.

But if I start playing a bar earlier, where there is another crash first, then the crash cuts out early.

I wonder if I am I running out of sound voices or something?

[Bill Denton]

Just a hint, and I could very well be wrong about this, but IIRC, at the beginning of a MIDI note, the "triggering device" (DAW, sequencer, whatever) sends a "Note ON" message out the specified channel and port, and at the end of the MIDI note, it sends a "Note OFF" message.

Now keep in mind that when the MIDI sequencer sends a "Note OFF", the note produced by the sound source will end. If the audio is being fed to the "BMF Cathedral" preset on a reverb unit, the audio from the reverb unit does not stop with the "Note OFF" message; it will decay normally.

And keep in mind that a processing unit built into your drum virtual instrument may behave differently than a "plugin" processor.

Now, like I said, I may be off on the "Note ON" and "Note OFF" messages, and if I am, somebody please let me know...

[Mark Ziebarth]

Originally Posted by DC-Choppah

There is apparently more to this.

I just found a spot where the crash cuts out no matter how long I make the note.

But if I start playing from right before the crash then it is fine.

But if I start playing a bar earlier, where there is another crash first, then the crash cuts out early.

I wonder if I am I running out of sound voices or something?

If the problem persists or occurs randomly, I would record the crash cymbal to an audio track and design the ending to my liking.
I don't use Structure too much so I can't help you with any settings there.

Mark

[albee1952]

Another possible solution to the crash that cuts out; delete the note from the piano role and drop a new note(also, make sure that note isn't for a choked crash sound). I use Addictive drums and SD2 and every once in a while, a note seems to be corrupt in some odd fashion, Delete and replace usually fixes it, and with these plugins, there are certain notes that yield a choked crash be design

[DC-Choppah]

Originally Posted by albee1952

there are certain notes that yield a choked crash be design

That was it. But it was not the crash note, instead there was an open high hat on the previous beat that was cutting off unnaturally in the middle of the crash. It's like it was being choked by the crash coming in.

I have note figures out what causes the open high hat to close consistently. If you just hit it once, it rings. But when it rings and you hit certain other notes, it closes.

[albee1952]

Can't solve that one, but I can offer a work around; Toss up another stereo instrument track with the same plugin, and put your hat notes on that piano roll.
FWIW, I've not heard this in Addictive drums, ezdrummer or SD2

[John_Toolbox]

Originally Posted by DC-Choppah

That was it. But it was not the crash note, instead there was an open high hat on the previous beat that was cutting off unnaturally in the middle of the crash. It's like it was being choked by the crash coming in.

I have note figures out what causes the open high hat to close consistently. If you just hit it once, it rings. But when it rings and you hit certain other notes, it closes.

Check note velocity of the events that are making it behave this way, some sample patches have different sounds mapped at different velocities.