Transitioning Lows to the Real World

[polebarn studio]

Hi All!! Just need any advice. Just recorded a friends Metal Band. Never did that before Growling, Double bass in your face tuned from E to C ETC... Sounds great on my monitors I hear it all BUT... in my car and in the house the consumer speakers dont reproduce the lows well. you lose the punch. It looks like the subs are going nuts but not getting much out. Should I try experimenting with some different compression or EQ or just any kind of advise would help. PS when I say sub I just mean in the stereo main speakers for the house. Thanks Dave.

[polebarn studio]

Common sense tells me I need to go back out there and dial in some attack with the EQ and filter out some very low lows and add punch with the compressor. Problem is Ive gotten into trouble using common sense!! If there is a rule of thumb when it comes to mixing low bass drums and bass guitars to get them to "sit well" in the mix on Metal like that let me know. Thanks!! its a challenge but still havin fun!!Dave.

[mesaone]

Originally Posted by polebarn studio

Common sense tells me I need to go back out there and dial in some attack with the EQ and filter out some very low lows and add punch with the compressor.

Many compressors allow you to HPF the sidechain signal... If you set sidechain to internal, this will prevent frequencies below the cutoff from triggering the gain reduction circuit.

I don't know if this will give you the sound you are going for, but it's worth a shot.

[polebarn studio]

Its funny I have seen it a thousand times but always pulled up a EQ and used the low filter on that. Thanks for reminding me. Its been so long scince I had a project I start forgetting things. Its comming along a lot better. Just had to take a break and hear it with fresh ears. That Metal wears you down! Thanks Dave.

[mesaone]

Originally Posted by polebarn studio

Its funny I have seen it a thousand times but always pulled up a EQ and used the low filter on that.

Unlike using an HPF on the material itself, filtering the sidechain allows you to keep your low end intact. The filter doesn't affect the signal itself, just the detection. In practice, this prevents high amplitude low frequency content from triggering gain reduction on the signal.

Of course, something like a snare hit or other material that resides above the filter cutoff will trigger gain reduction of the entire signal, but filtering the sidechain can help preserve things like the "boom" of kick drums and the sustain of bass instruments.

You'll also want to play with attack and release times to get the sound shaping you want. Lengthening the attack time can help keep aggressive bass plucking and drum hits from getting "soft", for example.

[polebarn studio]

I think you hit it on the head.No pun intended. That explains why it sounds alright on the monitor mix but the frequency drops out on the 2 trk mix on the stereo or other audio device. These lows and this type of hardcore metal is hard for me to mix. Everything just seems maxed. Double bass going crazy super low tuned Bass guitar Cymbals overpowering everything. Had to bring down overheads to hear the drums because of the cymbal wash. Its Crazy!! Glad to have some work! Thanks I will work with the sidechain to see what you mean. Dave.

[soybalm]

put a high pass on the cymbals too! You can go pretty high since the mix is so dense. Thin the guitars out too. The lowend of the guitar will muddy up the bass. Let the bass and kik do the work. automate the frequency or bypass if there is a solo break where you need the lows back in the guitars. This works great with acoustics too.
I do use a little side chaining. It's a very powerful tool to use for so many things.

[ondruspat]

PB Studio, I'd look more into treating your mixing space. There might be standing waves, etc., that are hyping the low end in your mixing room. There are plenty of threads and webpages on this. Also if you gave a layout of your room I'm sure that there are plenty of people on here that would throw you advice.

[CME]

Originally Posted by ondruspat

PB Studio, I'd look more into treating your mixing space. There might be standing waves, etc., that are hyping the low end in your mixing room. There are plenty of threads and webpages on this. Also if you gave a layout of your room I'm sure that there are plenty of people on here that would throw you advice.

This is my thoughts also. And fwiw I recently picked up a jbl msc-1. That had helped a lot with the low end of my mixes translating. But always treat first. I've done some treatment and def need more but I was surprised how much the jbl has already helped.

[soybalm]

Try mixing with the volume really low as well and compare similar recordings at that level like many of the screamo low B and even A. Some folks are buying 7 strings and dropping those down. That mid bass has to be handled with care. I had a similar problem on a tune in the key of E, normal tuning where I dropped 200 hz a db, kicked up a notch of 80 hz and brought up a good amount of 500 hz for note definition. The bass sound was pretty cloudy. Fix the bass. Make sure the kick isn't slamming the limiters too much. You might need some careful handling of the kik eq with large cuts and boosts. If you can replace the kick with something like sound replacer or drumagog, try that for comparison. Don't hit red anywhere.