"A game changer"

[danander11]

Originally Posted by TimNielsen

Hmm, as someone who does a lot of my work at Skywalker, let me just assure you that plenty of us there want all the things that you want too! I for one still want bins.

I guess I should also make clear that anything I post here is simply MY opinion, I certainly don't speak for Skywalker Sound or any of my colleagues there.

I admit I'm somewhat underwhelmed at this release, and I'm quite in a harumph about the pricing, that's for sure.

I tend to agree, this release brings us a lot of things that are a long time coming. The DAE, if it's been rewritten, this isn't some 'new feature', it's a big 'bug fix' that should have been done years ago. I don't quite understand how a 'disk cache' is some innovative new feature. A whole lot of programs have used disk caches before. And Kontakt's memory server was an 'extended disk cache' before Avid's. Don't get me wrong, it's great. But finally having the 'engine' behind ProTools work right isn't a new feature! The old DAE has been a weight on ProTools for some time. I'm thrilled they fixed it. I'm not thrilled that they're trying to 'sell' it to me as something other than an update that we should have had many years ago.

And also, why on earth would you limit this to HD users? This isn't some extra feature. This should be core functionality. And it should be in EVERY version of ProTools.

Fade Files going away? Only about a decade too late. It's about damn time, but I certainly shouldn't be PAYING you for it.

Ability to user Interleaved Files? Again, this is not a FEATUE. This is something that every other audio editing program I have ever seen was able to do. And you're trying to charge me $1000 for it and these other things?

Clip based gain? Great. About time. Again, nothing new. You're finally catching up, that's great. But come on, 'a giant step forward'. More like a 'long time coming step from way behind the competition which gets us up to the plate again'. Maybe. There's still a lot to do!

Oooooo, 24 hour timeline. Heck, that's worth a grand :)

How about these things:

--Offline Bouncing (as about a trilliion other people have asked for).

--Pan Window follows Track Selection (as in Nuendo)

--Multiple Videos online in separate windows

--Multiple Sessions open at the same time (now that the DAE is new, this should be possible, since it's all in RAM now!)

--Um, BINS.

--VST plugin support. Without some 'wrapper'. Why on earth can't you use VST plugins. Insane.

--Export Region group with embedded media. Until you do this, exporting region grouping is still relatively worthless to me.

Some of those would actually change my workflow. Sorry to be 'snarky' but the truth is, PT10 would have been a fine update at $350. I would have bought it right away.

The real bummer in all of this is that Avid is really shooting themselves in the foot I think. I have an HD3 setup. But at this point, rather than spend a thousand dollars upgrading the software, I'm going to sell it, and go to an HD Native card. More tracks, better math, and once I go that route, there's pretty much no chance I'll be going to back an HDX setup. Had they priced HD10 better, I may very well have, at least I would have bought the HD10 software and waited a bit to decide about HDX. And I don't think I'm alone.

I suspect this will simply push quite a few HD users to the Native world, with or without Digi's hardware. I know someone selling his entire HD rig, cards, I/O, etc and going Native on a MOTU 828 Firewire interface. How is THAT in Digi's interest, to drive away those of us who would have been the ones to spend $10k on a new HDX system. But now that they've announced that all their Blue I/Os aren't going to work past PT10, I suspect a lot more people will be buying the MOTU type interfaces. By the way, I saw it, and it's very slick. Much more functional than any Digi interface a much lower price point.

So really I just wonder how many HDX cards they can sell. I won't be buying one. If I didn't already have and love my HD Omni, I wouldn't even bother with the HD Native card honestly, I'd buy the MOTU as well.

Just my .02

Wow.. Guess I can't say it any better than that....

My native card will be here any day and then I'm off the gravy train.

I, for the life of me, cannot see how this has helped Avid. And it would have been so easy.

[pasanta]

Originally Posted by TimNielsen

Hmm, as someone who does a lot of my work at Skywalker, let me just assure you that plenty of us there want all the things that you want too! I for one still want bins.

My apologies for the misunderstanding. I'm sure many understood my sarcasm, but many might not. I mean no disrespect for Skywalker, anyone who works there or even anyone who wants what Chris suggests. I'm only addressing what seems to be smug comments about the difference between "ends of the food chain". And to be fair, Chris may not intend to sound smug. But it certainly felt like a good example of the situation to a degree. Skywalker was just the first example of a large operation that came to mind. I don't claim to know or speak they're mind. Nor do i mean to bring them into it. Just re-read my post and in place of Skywalker, use "anyone or any place that could be considered the top of the food chain."

As for the rest of Tim's response from the higher end of the food chain , I totally agree.

[b1daly]

One thing that is a game changer for me is the increased speed of I interface response. TDM had been slower than native for sometime on my computer for things like adding tracks and plugs, PT is much faster. The disc cache is amazing, you can edit complex programs with virtually no buffering which is huge! Are there any other DAWs out now with a disc cache feature.
It's weird to hear people griping about how behind PT is. I came to PT 7 after years working on Cubase, logic, and Vegas and I never feel like the grass is greener except for the price. If I just worked on my own then I would probably use Logic but everytime I fire it up I get weird glitches.
The thing where PT wins in my book is usability, not features.
Really, setting aside the pain of learning a new DAW what do you guys think could replace it? I still use Logic and Vegas, but haven't been on Cubase since SX 2.

[rockridge]

Originally Posted by EricWillhelm

I imagine any one person who has worked with a given DAW for many years can say the same about all the other ones.

When I first started out I used Master Tracks Pro.
I had Steinberg Pro 24... could have used it, but I didn't.

When the Atari died I bought a Mac and went with Studio Vision.
I had Emagic Logic and MOTU Performer... could have used either of those, but I didn't.

When Opcode went out of business, I moved to ProTools.
I had other DAWS... they were all on an equal footing at that time, but Protools out shined them all.

All the DAWS I used had one thing in common... ease of use.
Not aimed at the "busy-work" types.

My point is, I'm not using Protools just because I'm used to it.

I use it because it's the easiest to use, maybe that's why it's an industry standard.
It didn't start out as an industry standard, but it is now!

Anyway, it's the best to me...

[BobbyDazzler]

If we're asking for extra features, I'll add a few.

+1 On the 24hr clock for me.

I would also like the non critical error messages to be posted across the top of the edit window (ala Fairlight) so you don't have waste time to close a popup window.
eg.. When you're holding the command key for a fine adjustment, then you hit space bar to start playback a fraction of a second before releasing Command, you get a record error window >there are no tracks in record blah, blah, blah.
Messages like that shouldn't require a pop up. Just post them across the top in an obvious colour. <- Time saved!

+1 Offline bounce

[TLarvenz]

As a sound designer and post mixer, I can't understand how this "post production" release didn't include bins and faster than realtime bounce. And I have to say that if Chris doesn't see the value in having the waveform not disappear, he doesn't do much - if any - editing. It's valuable in both post and music. It's crazy not to see that. Just to add on to Tim's post, being able to have more than one audiosuite window open at a time is not a new feature; it's a bug fix.

And for the record, I'd like to see user configurations in the add track window, so you could add a "OC Dialog" or" "BG Music", "Kontakt" track (or group of tracks) instead of a mono or stereo track or instead of duplicating a track configuration and then deleting the stuff I don't want.

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by Chris Lambrechts

Most people I deal with couldn't care less for an offline bounce or a graphical gadget that would allow them to see a waveform while you drag a region around in the timeline.

Pretty contradicting....

Dont wanna see the waveform but wanna be able to surgically edit it

[Chris Lambrechts]

Originally Posted by 25ghosts

Pretty contradicting....

Dont wanna see the waveform but wanna be able to surgically edit it

- first one is while dragging
- you wouldn't drag regions around while manipulating EA now would you ?

Nothing contradicting about that but still ... nice attempt to throw it off.

I see that all the time in Belgian politics as well. You say A and B and then someone else comes along and claims you said C whilst trying to make you look bad.

Nice try 25 .... better next time

Chris

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by Chris Lambrechts

- first one is while dragging
- you wouldn't drag regions around while manipulating EA now would you ?

Nothing contradicting about that but still ... nice attempt to throw it off.

I see that all the time in Belgian politics as well. You say A and B and then someone else comes along and claims you said C whilst trying to make you look bad.

Nice try 25 .... better next time

Chris

Man Chris, I was NOT trying to throw off anything....

Just pointing out that seeing the waveform is indeed a necessity.

Which in fact you pointed out, yourself in the 2nd statement...

Sorry... I SHOULD probably have used instead of

My BAD !

[TLarvenz]

Maybe what 25ghosts was saying was lost in translation but to clarify, talking about PRECISION editing, it's STUPID to have the waveform DISAPPEAR when dragging a region. Granted, nothing to do with EA, but everything to do with PRECISION. Incredibly arrogant. No wonder AVID's cratering with people like you.

Originally Posted by Chris Lambrechts

- first one is while dragging
- you wouldn't drag regions around while manipulating EA now would you ?

Nothing contradicting about that but still ... nice attempt to throw it off.

I see that all the time in Belgian politics as well. You say A and B and then someone else comes along and claims you said C whilst trying to make you look bad.

Nice try 25 .... better next time

Chris