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  #1  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:04 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Manufacturers who intentionally make their products obsolete

I would like to start a thread, of anybody's experience with manufacturers who intentionally make products they made in the past obsolete, to force their users to have to purchase new products. This only applies to audio products, not other software products.

This applies to hardware and software.

I spent some time tonight thinking about all of the other DAW manufacturers, and audio related manufacturers, that I am aware over the last 30 years of being in this industry, to determine if there's anybody else other than Avd who makes this practice part of their business model.

Apogee - No
Steinberg - No
RME - No
Logic - No
MOTU - No
Mackie - No
SSL - No
UAD - yes, TDM Plugins only
Presonus - No
Radar - No
Reeper -No
Sonar - No
Yamaha - No

Avid - yes, control 24, ProControl beyond TDM, PT10

Of everyone above, who's products are vastly more expensive.

Help me remember what else I'm missing?
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:21 PM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: Manufacturers who intentionally make their products obsolete

You very well can argue Logic. The transition from Emagic to Apple left a LOT of things by the wayside.

A lot of these other companies you mention such a Mackie for instance stop building and EOL products quite often. Ever tried to get parts for a HUI??
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:44 PM
capt kirk capt kirk is offline
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Default Re: Manufacturers who intentionally make their products obsolete

the best example is Apple, by utterly destroying FinalCutPro, so it could rebuild it, and by extension, resell it to people who had already paid for the stuff the older one did, but were now caught, kinda....they can do that because with more cash than 90% of the countries on earth, and control of the OS, hey whatever we do, you gotta tag along.....Avid does not have that luxury. Adobe has gone to the subscription model, SAS i guess. ....we'll see if this really works, ikinda doubt it and well see a lot of people just drift off into Logic (remeber FCP ...ummm) or Cubase or whatever...i would love see the sales pitch powerpoint they got so excited over , they decided to ruin the entire company...probably...in any case, theres no NEW features coming that anyone REALLY needs , so this whole amount of hand wringing is fruitless...btw, why are they not buyingup soundminer, and Blackmagic and RED camera and OWNING the post market????
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  #4  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:45 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Manufacturers who intentionally make their products obsolete

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
You very well can argue Logic. The transition from Emagic to Apple left a LOT of things by the wayside.

A lot of these other companies you mention such a Mackie for instance stop building and EOL products quite often. Ever tried to get parts for a HUI??
That's not the question, Mackie including DB8 still works today with PT11 as long as the is in working order, they did not intentionally make it no longer work. I think everybody understands that no manufactures going to continue to provide parts for products that are decades old.
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2015, 09:46 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Manufacturers who intentionally make their products obsolete

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt kirk View Post
the best example is Apple, by utterly destroying FinalCutPro, so it could rebuild it, and by extension, resell it to people who had already paid for the stuff the older one did, but were now caught, kinda....they can do that because with more cash than 90% of the countries on earth, and control of the OS, hey whatever we do, you gotta tag along.....Avid does not have that luxury. Adobe has gone to the subscription model, SAS i guess. ....we'll see if this really works, ikinda doubt it and well see a lot of people just drift off into Logic (remeber FCP ...ummm) or Cubase or whatever...i would love see the sales pitch powerpoint they got so excited over , they decided to ruin the entire company...probably...in any case, theres no NEW features coming that anyone REALLY needs , so this whole amount of hand wringing is fruitless...btw, why are they not buyingup soundminer, and Blackmagic and RED camera and OWNING the post market????

Final Cut Pro both the old versions and the new versions continue to work on the Mac. We can argue that they took away features and undermined the value of the product. However they did not intentionally stop it from working with current computers.
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2015, 10:04 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Manufacturers who intentionally make their products obsolete

I think, that considering the fact that this was originally created in another part of the forum, that the context be brought into perspective regarding the original subject matter of my original post.

By the very nature of what we do regarding anything digital, various equipment is going to become obsolete by the very nature of advancements in technology. The important distinction, and the point that I was originally trying to make, whether valid or not, was the fact that Avid is the only audio company that I can think of, maybe other companies that I'm unaware of, that as part of their business model has intentionally made products that they've made in the past no longer work, with the sole intention of forcing the user, if they wanted to continue with newer versions of their products to have no choice but to purchase newer versions of a particular piece of equipment.

I offer as an example, Avid's Pro Control/Control 24 units that I personally use today, that work as well today as they did many, many years ago when they were first introduced. There is no reason whatsoever these units cannot work with ProTools 11, ProTools 12, and beyond, other than the fact Avid has intentionally made thiese particular pieces of equipment no longer work so they could force me, in their mind, to have no choice but to purchase new control services even though there's no need due to the fact that if I want to continue to use current versions of ProTools, I have to buy into the newer control services, or otherwise not use a control surface.
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  #7  
Old 03-19-2015, 06:24 AM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: Manufacturers who intentionally make their products obsolete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Johns View Post
I think, that considering the fact that this was originally created in another part of the forum, that the context be brought into perspective regarding the original subject matter of my original post.

By the very nature of what we do regarding anything digital, various equipment is going to become obsolete by the very nature of advancements in technology. The important distinction, and the point that I was originally trying to make, whether valid or not, was the fact that Avid is the only audio company that I can think of, maybe other companies that I'm unaware of, that as part of their business model has intentionally made products that they've made in the past no longer work, with the sole intention of forcing the user, if they wanted to continue with newer versions of their products to have no choice but to purchase newer versions of a particular piece of equipment.

I offer as an example, Avid's Pro Control/Control 24 units that I personally use today, that work as well today as they did many, many years ago when they were first introduced. There is no reason whatsoever these units cannot work with ProTools 11, ProTools 12, and beyond, other than the fact Avid has intentionally made thiese particular pieces of equipment no longer work so they could force me, in their mind, to have no choice but to purchase new control services even though there's no need due to the fact that if I want to continue to use current versions of ProTools, I have to buy into the newer control services, or otherwise not use a control surface.
You're not making the distinction between "choosing not to update" and "crippling"

They chose to not update them to the new software architecture. Nobody likes it, but it is quite common.

Apple does to evey piece of hardware it makes (phone, iPod, iPad, desktop, laptop) yet people seem to think Apple is superior. Apple also did it to Logic as I mentioned earlier.

You are also contradicting yourself. The control 24 or Pro Cntrl continue to work in 10 and on new computers which was your response to FCP.
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2015, 08:59 AM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Manufacturers who intentionally make their products obsolete

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
You're not making the distinction between "choosing not to update" and "crippling"

They chose to not update them to the new software architecture. Nobody likes it, but it is quite common.

Apple does to evey piece of hardware it makes (phone, iPod, iPad, desktop, laptop) yet people seem to think Apple is superior. Apple also did it to Logic as I mentioned earlier.

You are also contradicting yourself. The control 24 or Pro Cntrl continue to work in 10 and on new computers which was your response to FCP.
I agree with most of your points here.
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  #9  
Old 03-19-2015, 03:08 PM
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Josh Voyles Josh Voyles is offline
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Default Re: Manufacturers who intentionally make their products obsolete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Johns View Post
I would like to start a thread, of anybody's experience with manufacturers who intentionally make products they made in the past obsolete, to force their users to have to purchase new products. This only applies to audio products, not other software products.

This applies to hardware and software.

I spent some time tonight thinking about all of the other DAW manufacturers, and audio related manufacturers, that I am aware over the last 30 years of being in this industry, to determine if there's anybody else other than Avd who makes this practice part of their business model.

Apogee - No
Steinberg - No
RME - No
Logic - No
MOTU - No
Mackie - No
SSL - No
UAD - yes, TDM Plugins only
Presonus - No
Radar - No
Reeper -No
Sonar - No
Yamaha - No

Avid - yes, control 24, ProControl beyond TDM, PT10

Of everyone above, who's products are vastly more expensive.

Help me remember what else I'm missing?
I can't really think of anything. At least not on the terms of what Avid is doing now with the new licensing policy. I'm not opposed to it as much, but I don't get all the comments about not being able upgrade once you're plan elapses. Something doesn't seem right. And if this ends up being the case, it'll be dissapointing.

Personally, I think Avid is too big right now and they are looking for ways to feed money to themselves.

Smaller companies or companies that are big but make other things probably don't run into this.
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Old 03-19-2015, 04:14 PM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
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Default Re: Manufacturers who intentionally make their products obsolete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Voyles View Post
I can't really think of anything. At least not on the terms of what Avid is doing now with the new licensing policy. I'm not opposed to it as much, but I don't get all the comments about not being able upgrade once you're plan elapses. Something doesn't seem right. And if this ends up being the case, it'll be dissapointing.

Personally, I think Avid is too big right now and they are looking for ways to feed money to themselves.

Smaller companies or companies that are big but make other things probably don't run into this.
Again, this goes back to the accounting issues...

Avid simply can't provide any service other than a bugfix for products that aren't covered by a paid, fixed-term service plan.

And Avid really doesn't have any choice in the matter...
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Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

Just rockin'...what more is there?

Bill in Pittsburgh
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