Best Thunderbolt Interface?

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by digiot

The way I look at it is that if you buy a Quantum for low latency purposes and buy a UAD Octo Satellite you get the best of both worlds for less

Not if you want to track with those nice UAD plugins.... the Octo Satellite will push you into larger buffer/higher latency use, and it won’t matter what the conversion latency of the Quantum is.


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[digiot]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Not if you want to track with those nice UAD plugins.... the Octo Satellite will push you into larger buffer/higher latency use, and it won’t matter what the conversion latency of the Quantum is.


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Why would I ever want to track with Plug-ins!? Its like a vicious circle, you track with them because you can't run them at a low enough latency if you use them as a host plug-in. There are a ton of other native plug-in companies that write plugins that don't add 1000+ samples of latencies.
I think the UAD Plug-ins are great in a mixing workflow where you don't need low latencies and Delay Compensation handles the added plug-in delays.

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by digiot

Why would I ever want to track with Plug-ins (hardware emulations)!?

Because it's how every record of consequence has been made for the past 60 years.

Engineers "get sounds" and commit them to "tape". We need more of this in the recording biz these days.

[Darryl Ramm]

Your talent also may want to hear what they expect in monitor mixes. From high quality plugins at possibly demanding low latency. They may well have a preference of exactly what plugins.

This is all largely why real analog consoles, the UAD console and it's plugins, and why Pro Tools HDX and its DSP plugins exist. Nothing that other interfaces having low conversion latency really changes (unless you know you can get away monitoring dry thought that hardware box, survive with whatever in-box effects it gives you, if any, or can track at low enough buffer and survive with low latency native plugins for monitor mixes).

[propower]

Originally Posted by digiot

I would love some real world experiences with the Quantum too! On paper it blows any Thunderbolt interface out of the water when it comes to low latency.

For a straight no DSP - use the DAW and Native plugins only - the Quantum shows very good latency figures - 1.9ms RTL - 44.1kHz 32 Buffer. Although this is a very good basically best in class type number there are at least two other companies meeting this figure as well - Antelope and Apogee. The Quantum is good (on paper) but so are others.

The main thing Presonus has done (and the Quantum is the highlight matching unit for this) is totally redo how the dual buffer in Studio One works where only the record enabled tracks see the low buffer. I love PT but this one thing is S1 (with the matching Quantum driver) is in a totally different class than PT (IMO of course). I will at some point get a Quantum to see how this goes - but my experience with using S1 with two antelope products gives me very close to Quantum latency with much less CPU strain than PT (note though - I am a very light VI user).

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by panamajack

I have passed on the Apollo for the time being. After reading how much hardware will likely be required to run a couple dozen plug-ins, it looks to me like a rich man's toy. I did audition the plugs, and almost took the plunge, but aborted.

The first TB interface I bought was an Apogee Element 46. Liked the features, the mic-pres, the price ($599 to $1,499, less on the street), and the fact it has native control from within Logic 10.3.2. And, at least in Logic, the Control app permits direct monitoring to eliminate latency caused by routing through the DAW. Being a gadget guy, I bought the external controller, but there is also an iOS app for iPad or iPhone wireless control.

But I also bought a Focusrite 8 PreX before the dust settled because it has the MIDI port. I will likely be syncing machines together and like the idea of the on-board MIDI. It also has direct monitoring to reduce latency.

The jury is still out on the Apollo money pit. As far as I know, you can only run their pricy plug-ins in it.

The Apogee Element Series is a bit under the radar with many folks. Excellent products, though.

[digiot]

Originally Posted by propower

For a straight no DSP - use the DAW and Native plugins only - the Quantum shows very good latency figures - 1.9ms RTL - 44.1kHz 32 Buffer. Although this is a very good basically best in class type number there are at least two other companies meeting this figure as well - Antelope and Apogee. The Quantum is good (on paper) but so are others.

The main thing Presonus has done (and the Quantum is the highlight matching unit for this) is totally redo how the dual buffer in Studio One works where only the record enabled tracks see the low buffer. I love PT but this one thing is S1 (with the matching Quantum driver) is in a totally different class than PT (IMO of course). I will at some point get a Quantum to see how this goes - but my experience with using S1 with two antelope products gives me very close to Quantum latency with much less CPU strain than PT (note though - I am a very light VI user).

Thanks for actually staying on topic here. I am not here to start a pissing war with Apollo apologists

I have used most of the interfaces you mentioned and some more. The bottom line is, how good are these numbers when tracking under heavy processor loads.
Also I am coming from a long line of Protools DSP workflow. PTIII to HDX and everything in between. The only Native solutions I was able to use under heavy processor load were the PCIe based cards like Lynx AESe and RME AESIO. I was underwhelmed by all Thunderbolt solutions out there including UAD Apollo, Apogee Symphony and Antelope Orion 32+. I did get some decent results from the Lynx Thunderbolt card/ Aurora combo.
I am about to get my hands on an RME UFX+ which I am sure is going to get me great results. Given their track record on writing rock solid drivers.
And I might just have to pick up a Quantum to test it out.

Also to be clear I load all my VI's in to VEP! Without that Protools is at a major disadvantage from the other native DAW's. It has been part of my workflow since Protools 8 and even though the AAX64 standard made using VI's inside of Protools more usable its still not nearly as effecient as running it in VEP.

[VRW]

Originally Posted by Sting

Firstly mate thanks very much for your well informed reply and advice. It’s very much appreciated taking the time to write such a response.

Do you think the solo will have enough DSP power? I will only be using one input at a time for Mic and vocals or guitar as my music is mainly based on rock/pop. My songs normally don’t consist of more than fifteen to twenty tracks. Will be using the included UA preamps, EQs and reverbs going in to put less strain on the computer and will be using the latest version of EZ Drummer for my beats. Would it be better to pay the extra for the Duo, even a second hand unit?

Have been previously using 11R as my interface so expecting an improvement in sound quality for the outlay.

Concerning the 8GB of ram with the iMac. This comes as standard but I’ve been advised not to purchase the extra ram through Apple as I can get it cheaper elsewhere on such sites such as crucial.com so will be upgrading the memory to 16GB for now and to 32GB when I can afford to. The iMac I’m getting has a capacity of 64GB so should be future proof for a while.

Including the Apple Care and interface I’m looking at around £3800 outlay. It’s taken me quite a while to save that but hopefully it will be many years before I need that type of outlay again? I had looked at the new iMac Pro but financially unaffordable to me at nearly five grand for the basic model.

Sorry, been away from the DUC for a while and got no notification about any replies as yet.

I have used many interfaces through the years from Avid to Apogee etc. and they all were nice without any doubt but I have never had any stuff being that reliable and stable than UA before.

For me personally that's the main reason to recommend UA interfaces. Not the UA plugins which are very good emulations for sure but the really cool UA drivers and the exceptional quality of their converters
are what makes the differences lastly. You won't find anything better for the price out there.

As for your question if one DSP might be enough, yeah, certainly it can be enough if you know which UA plug ins to use finally.
However if you want to have a choice among their plug ins or if you even want to use the UA plug ins in your mixes extensively you will hit the wall soon with one DSP only.

The main reason you want to use those UA plug ins for recording will be the Unison preamp/channel technology. This definitely makes sense.
I have been recording stuff for decades, from small facilities to large SSL and Neve desks and I tell you, you can definitely get high end quality recordings with those Unison channels using high quality studio mics.

That's why you would want to record with these plug ins finally.

I have received astonishing recording quality with the Neve 88RS channel and some high class studio mics as well as with the Neve 1073 Unison channel and the Manley Voxbox. These results were even comparable
to the hardware units. Quite impressive.

Presonus always have been making decent stuff and the Quantum has already catched my attention a while ago but I doubt that it will deliver such high audio quality results like the UA Apollos at the end of the day.

Again, it´s not the UA plug ins which make the Apollos outstanding, it´s the amazing quality of their converters and the unrivaled stability of their drivers and software. That is why you want those interfaces.

If you can afford it go with the Apollo Twin Duo Mk2 which will provide you a certain amount of DSP power from the start. If you can afford the Solo only it might be alright as well as you can add some quad/octo sat later.
In my opinion do not go with a second hand unit. Get the latest model the Mk2 as a new product (even if it´s the Solo only) and you never will look back for sure.

Further if you can afford it buy the Neve 88RS, the SSL E Channel or the Manley Voxbox Unison channel plug in for tracking your voices and instruments. The standard 610 etc is nice for some basic stuff but it not will give you the
UA Unison preamp/channel experience everybody is talking about.

The nice thing with these UA plug ins is that you can demo it for 14 days fully functional and whenever you will buy anything from them all demos will be reset and you can test drive all for 14 days again. So you will have enough
time to check out which of the Unison preamps/channels will work best with your mics and your instruments finally.

From my experience one of these Unison channels (88RS, SSL, API, Manley Voxbox) and a nice sounding reverb plug in (on the AUX) which doesn't suck too much of DSP power will be enough to record seriously good quality stuff
at the end of the day. Given you use high quality mics and instruments of course.

As for the memory of your iMac you do the right thing. Using good quality third party Ram will save you a bunch of bucks. If you upgrade to 16GB you will be fine with PT12. If you can afford even more later it will be fun.

As for your backup drive you may save money like mentioned by Darryl already by using a 7200rpm HDD via USB 3. That will be fast enough for backups and even more durable than a SSD in the long run.

I hope you will get the suiting stuff for your needs and you will have lots of fun with your system.

The best of success to you.

Cheers.

[digiot]

Originally Posted by VRW

Sorry, been away from the DUC for a while and got no notification about any replies as yet.

I have used many interfaces through the years from Avid to Apogee etc. and they all were nice without any doubt but I have never had any stuff being that reliable and stable than UA before.

May I ask what you base your opinion on for what is a reliable and stable interface?
Not second guessing you here but that is a very bold statement.

Just for reference I own/operate ProtoolsHD, ProtoolsHDX an Apollo Twin, RME UFX(Firewire) and Antelope Orion32+(Thunderbolt). I tend to use Protools as my DAW but also own Logic, Ableton and DigitalPerformer.

[VRW]

Originally Posted by digiot

May I ask what you base your opinion on for what is a reliable and stable interface?
Not second guessing you here but that is a very bold statement.

Just for reference I own/operate ProtoolsHD, ProtoolsHDX an Apollo Twin, RME UFX(Firewire) and Antelope Orion32+(Thunderbolt). I tend to use Protools as my DAW but also own Logic, Ableton and DigitalPerformer.

It´s based on twenty years of experience with most of the semi pro and pro interfaces on the market. Many of them I have owned myself, others I have worked with or have seen colleagues and friends working with.

I have owned nearly every Digidesign/Avid interface they came up with except PT HD hardware systems which I only used to work with (was too expensive and not necessary to spend that much money when I could use it in larger facilities anyway),
RME semi pro and pro interfaces in my former Windows days, Apogee stuff from small to pro, Focusrite interfaces etc.

Finally, after being very skeptical about the whole hype for quite a long time, I got to the UA stuff. The main reason was that I had loved my Apogees for their sound quality but I had started to hate them for their drivers and other technical issues by that time.
Same like with the Digidesign stuff before. Remember the Core Audio drama they never have really solved etc.?

And I tell you something, which of course is my personal experience only, I have not had the smallest issue or any problem with the UA Apollo Thunderbolt and the Octo satellite in about 3 years I have used it so far. Not one single driver problem,
not one single software problem, not one single error message caused by the UA stuff. And no hardware issue of course.

Through all versions of macOS (and there were a couple of) and through all versions of PT11/12 the UA stuff was rock solid. For me, based on my own experiences and the ones of my colleagues and friends, this is simply amazing. No other interface except the
former Digidesign HD hardware gear delivered such a trouble free, well working, stable performance in all the years. Well, yeah, RME gear on Windows systems was/is similar to that.

And let's get to the audio quality/the quality of the converters.
As mentioned already besides the Digidesign HD gear and some crazy priced high end converters like Prism converters back in the day etc. the Apogee stuff was my reference for years when it came to audio conversion. I had loved my Rosetta 200 (which btw
sounded a lot better than the 800) and all the other Apogee gear I had owned and used.

This was the reason to get all the new Apogee gear after I had decided to give up on my Digi003 once. Way too many problems with all the new versions of OS and all the new hardware then. Again, the Symphony stuff I only have worked with, not owned myself.
Any other Apogees I have had.

Unfortunately over time the Apogees started having serious driver and software issues and even some ridiculous hardware problems.

That's when I was ready to try the UA gear at last. I already had heard a lot of good things about it but was still skeptical when Christopher here convinced me to give it a try finally. And he definitely knows what he is talking about.
I have never looked back.

To me even the converters/the audio quality of the UA interfaces tops the Apogees and several other high end gear. The audio quality of the new mk2 series simply blew me away when I set up a small but professional recording facility for a friend last summer.
I haven't heard such conversion quality from stuff below 5-6k yet.

That's it.

I never would recommend that UA stuff that much if I would not have been more than impressed and convinced by it over the last 3 years. In conjunction with Pro Tools 12 Native/HD software (I use it with both myself) as well as with Logic Pro X and Cubase 9 Pro
from time to time. But the UA interfaces work well with any other audio application I have ever used it with. Simply cool. Unlike Digidesign/Avid hardware and many others. Even some current boxes.

So it´s based on simply really positive personal experience after having used so many others over the years.

Sure there are a lot options out there for audio interfaces but I have never experienced such a great combination of audio quality, stable performance and trouble free drivers/software besides the big and super expensive HD hardware systems.

The UA plug ins, the Unison preamps/channels in particular, are really nice ones but that´s not the main reason for me personally to recommend the UA interfaces.


Cheers.