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  #21  
Old 10-15-2018, 02:12 PM
eaglecanyon1952 eaglecanyon1952 is offline
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Default Re: Latency and system configuration help!

Darryl, Perhaps I am speaking too fast, at this point I configured ProTools in a system that I had been using for the last 4 years and still use for Cubase, Vegas and Soundforge as well as other apps.... My move to ProTools was as more of an experiment that has been an ongoing challenge.

Saying that, this is a experiment in process and I"m finding out more everyday on what my current system is or isn't doing. I am still using this system for the other tasks and programs and seems to be doing just fine...

I have been told that ProTools may be a little trickier to deal with and so, that was my reasoning for thinking about another computer. I can take the RME card out of my current system and load it in to the new system with a clean install of ProTools... In my thought pattern I am thiking I can continue with my current system for our current projects and tasks while I get PT up to a stable platform... rather than trying to go back on a 4 year old system and deal with all that has been installed and used over the last 4 years... If I were to do that, I'd wipe the drive and start over... but that leaves me with out a system until I get everything done... that isn't the best option in my thoughts.

I also look at the new system with more advanced features such as the ability to use a PCIE M-2 solid state drive, and other drives I"ll decided on as I go. Needless to say, I"m a one man shop with lots of other things going on than just experimenting with Pro Tools. I may come to the determination that my idea of interfacing with the Sony Board isn't going to do what I want it to.... so, that just opens another bag of worms!

On the other hand I have a local engineering friend that knows PT very well and has alot of experience with it... His answer is Toss the PC, get an apple and a new Appogee set up and be happy.... at this point, I don't see that happening!

So, I"ll experiment, tweak and try various ideas and suggestions... but bottom line is I think by having a new computer to start from ground zero may be an approach that will get me both worlds at the end.

I do appreciate all the suggestions, help and I am trying the different things as quickly as I can.... again, A one man show! Probably biting off more that I really need to do right now Hopefully folks here can appreciate that.

To answer your question why not put it all on the SSD, I"ve always been told.. 1 drive OS and Programs.... 2nd drive Audio.... (which just may end up being a 2nd SSD (not an PCIE though)...

Dave
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  #22  
Old 10-15-2018, 02:49 PM
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EGS EGS is offline
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Default Re: Latency and system configuration help!

Yep - what Darryl and albee said.
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  #23  
Old 10-15-2018, 05:04 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Latency and system configuration help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglecanyon1952 View Post
To answer your question why not put it all on the SSD, I"ve always been told.. 1 drive OS and Programs.... 2nd drive Audio.... (which just may end up being a 2nd SSD (not an PCIE though)...
And for the third time now I'm telling you that is wrong information... when you are dealing with a M.2 PCIe/NVMe drive. The Avid Pro Tools guidance there is brain dead for not explaining this (esp. since it is wrong for most newer Macs used with Pro Tools, and has been for years), I'm fed up of asking Avid to fix it. You will reduce the systems performance/reliability putting audio on a slower second drive.

We've give you lots of information. Pro Tools *is* more complex to get set up than most DAWS. But just do it and learn and it will be second nature. You might as well hammer away on your current system and work out where you are in term of needed performance before launching off and just buying hardware and learning there that there is a lot of setup/optimization to do. Things like running a non-optimized/properly installed system you just should not have ever been wasting your on time trying to do.

You can also do things incrementally. e.g. stuff a PCIe/M.2 adapter card in your current PC, install a 970 Evo M.2 drive on that and do a full clean Windows 10 Pro install on the M.2 drive with Pro Tools. Move the M.2 to your new PC if you decide to buy one.

I'd likely be looking at a high quality interfaces at some point, so I'm with that part of the advice from your engineer friend there on the UAD. But because of that I'm especially cautious about deciding to just buy more computer hardware until you work though all the optimization and troubleshooting and possibly workflow changes (e.g. using track freeze) that can get you going acceptably with what you have now.
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  #24  
Old 10-15-2018, 06:44 PM
eaglecanyon1952 eaglecanyon1952 is offline
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Default Re: Latency and system configuration help!

Darryl, Thanks for the reply, Just to try to explain why I am leaning to a new computer.... it is because I can continue using the system I have in the studio and then, get the new computer which would have the latest processor and the ability to go up to 64 gb of ram either now or in the future. My current system being 4 -5 years old is working for my other needs and will continue to do just that. Actually, long term buying new will end up costing me less that trying to work with my older system.

Now on Drives, at this point the system would have a slot to handle the New PCIE style SSD but, are you saying that is not a good option? Then, there are 3 HDD Slots with Sata interfaces which I can add SSD drives. In my reading and comparisons the tests in windows it shows the PCIE slot design is much faster but you are saying that is not so?

With the New system I'd get Windows 10pro and then build the system from the ground up and best of all, I can still keep working in the studio while I am bringing the new computer on board.

So, I am specific on the SSD I was thinking of on the system board was this type of drive Samsung 960 PRO NVMe M.2 512GB SSD, either a 512gb or 1tb drive.

I can use other SSD's as Audio drives rather then the older HDD's no problem.

Believe me, I am not trying to be confrontational and yes I am listening... For me to buy a new computer just seemed to work with my schedule and idea.

PS, I did look at the Pro company you suggested, they only communicate by email....I have not had the to sit down and contact them yet.

Dave
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  #25  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:53 PM
eaglecanyon1952 eaglecanyon1952 is offline
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Default Re: Latency and system configuration help!

Darryl, I may have posted the incorrect Samsung Pcie drive.. I think I was looking at this one Samsung 960 PRO Series - 1TB PCIe NVMe - M.2 Internal SSD The Dell 8930 XPS system has a special connector on the Motherboard to insert this. Then I'd put a couple of other SSD drives as audio drives in the machine
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  #26  
Old 10-15-2018, 11:19 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Latency and system configuration help!

We are down the storage rat hole, I'm not sure that is warranted now vs sorting out your current system, but if you are going to get a new PC you really should be on this new tech.

Samsung 960 Series have been replaced by the 970 Series. There is not much difference. The 970 Evo is likely what you want, but I'd buy a 960 Evo or Pro if they were bargains.

A M.2 PCIe/NVMe drive like those uses 4 x PCIe 3 lanes. You can get those from a dedicated motherboard M.2 PCIe slot or by sticking a $20-$30 M.2 adapter card into a standard 4x or larger PCIe slot. Like this https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-.../dp/B01FU9JS94. As mentioned before you could even stick one of these in a spare PCIe slot in your current PC if you wanted to.

You are talking Dell PC again. I'm not so sure I'd go there vs. build my own PC.
Popular MOBO vendors are already shipping motherboards with three M.2 PCIe slots, and Thunderbolt 3 support... if you want to ever get those latest UAD interfaces you will dead in the water with that Dell and no Thunderbolt support.
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  #27  
Old 10-16-2018, 07:02 AM
eaglecanyon1952 eaglecanyon1952 is offline
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Default Re: Latency and system configuration help!

Darryl, Do you have a number I can just call you on..or I can send you a pm with my number... It just may be easy to sort out these hardware issues.
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  #28  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:14 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Latency and system configuration help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglecanyon1952 View Post
Darryl, Do you have a number I can just call you on..or I can send you a pm with my number... It just may be easy to sort out these hardware issues.
I'm pretty busy and I'd prefer you to work though all the suggestions discussed here at least to start with. Do a *full* optimization and then working though those troubleshooting steps and find what the minimum playback buffer size you can reliably get to, what AAE errors get thrown, try trashing prefs, new empty sessions, third party plugins all up to date?, removing all third party plugin files, interface driver up to date? etc. This is troubleshooting that many experienced Pro Tools users will just automatically do when faced faced with problems like unable to run at smaller IO buffer sizes.

It is not really clear to me you have a PC hardware problem, they may be issues that can be addressed with optimization and troubleshooting and some changes to workflow. And you risk buying say a high-end PC and still having the same issues.
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  #29  
Old 10-17-2018, 05:54 AM
eaglecanyon1952 eaglecanyon1952 is offline
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Default Re: Latency and system configuration help!

Good Morning Darryl, (and other contributors) thanks for your reply. I have been working on my "Current System" following the optimization tips one by on, I"ve actually made some pretty good headway in doing so. Last week during a session we were getting clicks and pops with a buffer of 128, now that I have made some changes to the system I went in yesterday and ran the same session and I was able to track at 64 but, so, thanks to everyone here for all the suggestions. I am going to continue chipping away at the system and see how much better I can get it. One thing for sure that under task manager I have to reduce the number of Processes that are happening and the amount of memory that is being used with out even opening ProTools..... I do realize that is a real issue.

I have gone in and changed what gets loaded at start up and really have cut down the list to a bare minimum. I am disabling things one by one, restarting the computer and seeing what if any is affected (good or bad). So far, It's all for the good.

In a previous post you talked about my current drive set up... so to explain it better right now My C: Drive which the OS and Programs reside is a Samsung 860 SATA SSD 512gb and that is pretty much (other than a few backup files) that I have on that SSD. My other HDD installed is a 7200 drive that is partitioned in to 3 I am currently only using 1 partition for all my ProTools sessions and audio and nothing else. It is a SATA drive. The external drive that is showing up is only a backup drive which I run system backups weekly, it is not an audio drive for any projects or used for ProTools.

Now If you are saying that I should use my first drive the SSD for my audio I can easily do that but in my years of working with audio It has always been that you use a different drive for your audio files..... but, things change and PT is new to me and an easy change if you think it is best to keep everything on the one drive.

I appreciate the help and suggestions I am receiving from everyone and as I am getting to know more about ProTools things are making a little more sense... I guess my past use of SoundForge, Vegas, and Cubase has always worked with my set up and I continue to use those programs... so, in any changes or things I do to this machine I need to check the other programs and make sure I am not causing issues with them.
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  #30  
Old 10-17-2018, 11:07 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Latency and system configuration help!

Start by optimizing, every last thing done. Still not hearing you have done that.

Your disk setup is fine. You might be able to run audio off the SATA boot SSD but it’s a risk, unlike a fast PCIe SSD.... do just leave as is.

There are lots of suggestions above to keep working through, but get all the optimizations done and leave them done for now, and then you need to be pushing small IO buffer sizes and seeing what AAE errors you get and then when you know where the edge of the cliff is you can do things like trying other troubleshooting, including removing 3rd party plugins, playing with disk cache, installing all matching DIMMs etc. if you are not well set up and at that performance cliff then troubleshooting other stuff is often a waste of time.

Not sure why you are disabling processes, other big apps or DAWs should not be running but no need to disable standard stuff (well except all AV software, already mentioned).
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