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  #11  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:40 PM
Hercules Hercules is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 8 m-powered and vista 64

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
That's not the reason at all (referring to digifriend).

The bigger picture is that there have been significant OS roadblocks to 64 bit support in Pro Tools, only recently addressed by service pack updates. Not to mention the overall problems almost everyone has seen with Vista.
Hi DigiTechSupt,

To be positive - I have almost no issues with 32bit Vista - PT7.4 installed and runs beautifully as long as you keep using it (if you leave it sit for half an hour or let it sleep then elastic audio pops up with problems reading the HD at first re-use then all is ok).

It will be nice to move to 64bit and access that 8GB RAM I have, but I would also like to be able to use RAID 5.

Are there any plans to provide RAID compatibility in PT 8?


Thanks
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  #12  
Old 11-16-2008, 09:17 PM
KDEWolf KDEWolf is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 8 m-powered and vista 64

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Originally Posted by spkguitar View Post
Let me ask you guys another question; how many third party plugins can you name that are 64bit compatible?
I can name several. I use my East West Symphony Orchestra, East West Pianos, East West Ministry Of Rock, East West Goliath all support 64-bit but i am forced to use them at 32 bit. In Fact my East West Plugins where i get the majority of my sounds (90%) are useless in 64-bit at this point in time. Even to my Effects plugins with my Izotope Ozone which runs in 64-bit yet i have to run it at 32-bit. Not only that but i had to return my M-Box 2 because i purchased it beleiveing it was going to work on 64-bit vista and lost 40$ because i had to ship back half way across the world.

In conclusion their is plenty of evidence of 64-bit support and when programs such as protools cannot support it then it hinders the capabilities of us producers. I understand that it is hard to go from a preexisting engine to support things such as 64-bit computers. But i also understand that Protools is a standard tool for studios around the globe and are known for its effectiveness and is the top choice for studio around the world. With that being said i have to say that Digidesign is a massive company with the ability to put several people on pay role to fix problems such as these. Yet again here it is 2008 creeping on 2009 and their is no 64 bit support on a Operating system that came out in 2006 and not only that 64-bit technology has been available since IBM came out with commercial computers in 1997. So i do believe Digi-design has had a very large amount of allotted time to meet these standards yet has failed to do so. As 2009 comes along protools 8 is set to release with still no 64-bit vista compatibility. As they are still releasing new products that cannot meet the standard. This is a huge failure by Digidesign and it is more apparent as Windows 7 the newest Windows Operating system nears release and digidesign still hasn't been able to provide support for the current operating system. lets again review what i said they are putting a 2009 product protools 8 that cannot support a computer that came out 3 years prior. That is almost a joke to me how can you a sell a product that cant support something that has been out so long. You must have worked so hard on your protools 8 inference that you must have forgot that it wouldn't work on the current top of the computers that have been sitting on the shelves for 3 years. And your competitors such as Cubase and Reaper, and Sonar and several others have already passed you. You lose potential buyers and also make frustrated buyers like myself who lost 40 bucks on a product that didn't work. Even worse are the buyers who where not able to return it. They are stuck with expensive and also useless hardware. at this point i don't for see 64-bit support on Protools and by the time i will it will be irrelevant as will have probably moved on from vista.
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2008, 06:04 AM
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spkguitar spkguitar is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 8 m-powered and vista 64

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Originally Posted by KDEWolf View Post
I can name several. I use my East West Symphony Orchestra, East West Pianos, East West Ministry Of Rock, East West Goliath all support 64-bit but i am forced to use them at 32 bit. In Fact my East West Plugins where i get the majority of my sounds (90%) are useless in 64-bit at this point in time. Even to my Effects plugins with my Izotope Ozone which runs in 64-bit yet i have to run it at 32-bit.
So... which of the 64-bit hosts are you using them with? What, besides being able to access more memory, are the benefits of those 64-bit plugins?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDEWolf View Post
And your competitors such as Cubase and Reaper, and Sonar and several others have already passed you.
Cubase and Reaper are still in beta when it comes to 64-bit. How is a beta version "passing" Digidesign? Sonar is the only one that I am aware of that has had a stable 64-bit version, and if you look at the problems being reported on the Cakewalk forums, you might see a different definition of "stable".
Which "several others" are you referring to? I'm not aware of many others with 64-bit capabilities.

Also KDEWolf, how do you know that the Pro Tools developers aren't actively working (hard) on a 64-bit version of Pro Tools? The fact is, you don't know that. You have no clue.

I agree that a 64-bit version of Pro Tools is necessary and will be welcomed by all (including myself), however I would imagine that they aren't going to show the general public anything until it has been tested and proven stable. I would much prefer to use a finished version of it instead of a "beta" like Cubase and Reaper. If I had to have 64-bit capabilities right now, I would use Sonar.

Even the Windows operating system was unstable at 64-bit until just recently, and that is still quesionable.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2008, 09:31 PM
revaudio revaudio is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 8 m-powered and vista 64

I am also disappointed that PT 8 is only coming in a 32 bit version. I think all the current M-Audio hardware is 64 bit compatible so it shouldn't be a hardware issue. The biggest gain I see with 64 bit is the RAM issue. In 32 you are limited to 4 GIG - which mind you is a lot, but if you start to run PT 8 with all the new MIDI plug-ins, scoring, etc. I'm sure it will eat it up.

I sell Sonar, Pro Tools and Cubase in my store and use them all on my main studio computer. (Jack of all...master of none) Sonar has actually been 64 bit compatible since Sonar 5 (3 years ago?) as they started working the XP 64 Bit environment. They were the first to hit it in Windows Vista 32 and 64 and I have to say, it is very very quick and stable there. I admire them for staying ahead of the game, getting the beta version of Windows and making their software as compatible as possible. Of course they only have one platform to worry about.

Cubase 64 bit is still shaky at best. We recommend everyone doing a Cubase or PT studio to stay in XP Pro (or Mac) for now. If someone is doing Sonar with Edirol gear or some of the other solid hardware in 64 bit like RME or M-Audio, then go for Vista. But I don't see any advantage for a PT user to go for Vista at this point. And Windows 7 will be out before we know it anyway...

Just my thoughts...

Jason
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2008, 09:09 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 8 m-powered and vista 64

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Originally Posted by smfelton View Post
Does this mean Snow Leopard will be unusable when it arrives next year.
I would bet on it until Digi has time to counteract whatever changes Apple writes in(same as Windows7). In any case, does 32 bit really impede your workflow? As long as I can get my work done, I don't really care if I'm on a 32 bit OS.
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2008, 01:13 PM
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The Weed The Weed is online now
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Default Re: Pro tools 8 m-powered and vista 64

Have a look at this article.

For all those waiting and hoping for 64 bit OS support have a look at these parts from the referenced article above (my bolding):

"Currently, Mac OS X Leopard hosts both 32-bit and 64-bit apps on top of a 32-bit kernel (below). Using PAE, the 32-bit kernel can address 32GB of RAM in the Mac Pro and Xserve; Apple's consumer machines only support 4GB RAM, but unlike 32-bit operating systems they can use the entire 4GB (with appropriate hardware support). Leopard's 32-bit kernel enabled Apple to ship 64-bit development tools to give coders the ability to build applications that can work with huge data sets in a 64-bit virtual memory space (and port over existing 64-bit code), without also requiring an immediate upgrade to all of Mac OS X's drivers and other kernel-level extensions. That transition will happen with Snow Leopard."

And:

"The 64-bit Kernel in Snow Leopard

Apple is expanding its 64-bit support in Snow Leopard down into the kernel. This will enable Mac systems to accommodate more than the 32GB of RAM currently available via 32-bit PAE. With kernel support for full 64-bit memory addressing, Apple can add as much RAM as users can afford. Of course, if you're buying RAM from Apple, upgrading a Mac Pro to 32GB of RAM currently costs $9,100, so it might be some time before home users decide they need more than that much RAM.

While Leopard's 32-bit kernel can run both 32- and 64-bit apps, a 64-bit app can not load 32-bit plugins or shared libraries, and vice versa. The 64-bit kernel similarly requires 64-bit kernel extensions and drivers, as it can't mix 32- and 64-bit code either. The move to a 64-bit kernel will therefore require an across-the-board upgrade for all kernel drivers in Snow Leopard.

Snow Leopard will also require developers who write any plugins for Mac OS X apps to recompile their code to 64-bit. This includes everything from System Preferences panes to web plugins. The reason for the massive upgrade will be that Apple will also deliver the entire system compiled as both 32- and 64-bit, from the Finder to iTunes to Safari. On 32-bit Macs, Snow Leopard will run normally, but on x64 Macs, everything will get a significant boost as every app on the system will benefit from the advantages of x64, particularly the extra registers supplied by x64 and missing from the 32-bit PC.

That advantage will outweigh the additional overhead caused by moving to 64-bits and the resulting use of larger data items. In contrast, there would be no real advantage in recompiling Snow Leopard and its apps for 64-bit PowerPC G5s, as the G5 is not currently constrained by the register problem of 32-bit x86; the 64-bit G5 has the same number of registers as the G4, because the G4 already had plenty. The G5 actually runs 64-bit apps slightly slower because of the increased overhead imposed by 64-bit addressing. For that reason, Snow Leopard will apparently be Intel-only."

I'm not sure how to read this. It either means Pro Tools as a 32 bit app will work under Snow Leopard, a 64 bit OS with a 64 bit Kernel, or Pro Tools will have to be recoded to 64 bit to work with Snow Leopard, a 64 bit OS with a 64 bit Kernel. Either way, I think it will take a while for Digidesign to qualify Pro Tools under Snow Leopard as it did for Leopard. I would expect, if they have to go to 64 bit support for Snow Leopard on a Mac, they would also offer 64 bit support in Windows. However, I'm not going to be holding my breath.

Can anyone offer insight on what Digidesign is going to have to do when Snow Leopard is released?

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  #17  
Old 12-24-2008, 08:54 AM
toner toner is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 8 m-powered and vista 64

I may sell my pro tools gear because of this. It's BS! I like the excuse of (snow lepord and windows 7 are around the corner), so what? Another 3 years before you guys start working on a 64-bit version of pro tools? By that time 4GB, which is BARELY enough now for what I do, will be obsolete.

Very disappointed here Digidesign! I've messed around with SONAR 64, though not as pretty as PT, it definately smokes PTLE performance wise and not as buggy.

What are you guys doing seriously?!?!?! I want to stay with PTLE, but these beating around the bush answers and falling behind on the newer technology aren't working for me. Digidesign will start losing more and more of the home studio market. I can already see it here on the forums.
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  #18  
Old 12-24-2008, 12:47 PM
kaspencer kaspencer is offline
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Default Re: Pro-tools and Vista 64

There is no doubt about it, you MUST pull your fingers out and get your whole team of programmers working on a Vista x64 issue of Pro-Tools. Otherwise you'll have a legal issue with the name and it will be re-named "Am-Tools".

And if you are in doubt about the stability of the Vista x64 platform (some posters on this forum have claimed instability), don't be. I know because I have run it since the Beta and RC1 versions (about November 2006), and now have had Vista Ultimate x64 running since release. It is completely stable. It is a great platform for quad core 8Gb support of applications such as the Hauptwerk virtual organ.

It is completely unforgivable for an application such as Pro-Tools to fail to recognise 64-bit drivers. So let us have an upgrade: in two stages if necessary:
1. Get the 32 bit version to work under WOW64 and recognise drivers etc;
2. Then release a full 64-bit version.

Maybe you don't fully understand what users are saying about software houses which have been so lagardly in releasing x64 versions of applications that would benefit so greatly from being updated to 21st century 64-bit applications. Well I'll tell you: users are angry, upset, annpoyed, frustrated and above all, full of disrespect for such companies.

So when will we get it eh?

Kenneth Spencer.
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  #19  
Old 12-25-2008, 08:49 AM
detroitkruk detroitkruk is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 8 m-powered and vista 64

Quote:
Originally Posted by spkguitar View Post
So... which of the 64-bit hosts are you using them with? What, besides being able to access more memory, are the benefits of those 64-bit plugins? Cubase and Reaper are still in beta when it comes to 64-bit. How is a beta version "passing" Digidesign? Sonar is the only one that I am aware of that has had a stable 64-bit version, and if you look at the problems being reported on the Cakewalk forums, you might see a different definition of "stable".
Which "several others" are you referring to? I'm not aware of many others with 64-bit capabilities.

Also KDEWolf, how do you know that the Pro Tools developers aren't actively working (hard) on a 64-bit version of Pro Tools? The fact is, you don't know that. You have no clue.

I agree that a 64-bit version of Pro Tools is necessary and will be welcomed by all (including myself), however I would imagine that they aren't going to show the general public anything until it has been tested and proven stable. I would much prefer to use a finished version of it instead of a "beta" like Cubase and Reaper. If I had to have 64-bit capabilities right now, I would use Sonar.

Even the Windows operating system was unstable at 64-bit until just recently, and that is still quesionable.
spkguitar, you are a HUGE asset to this community and have solved hundreds of problems for people, that i've seen...it's awesome that you've dedicated yourself to getting people started on what can be a daunting task (learning pro tools)...

you are also a HUGE digidesign apologist...this isn't flame...believe me...even the tone of your responses takes a, "well, if you only knew how hard it was you'd be happy with what you got" kind of tone...

it's just...c'mon...how 'bout one of these development cycles being just blown away with LE...ya know...not years of bitchin about what's missing...c'mon, man...and i'm not talkin' about elastic pitch o' dyne...just nail it one of these times...get ahead of something instead of behind it, ya know?

i wanna log into the duc one day and see posts like, "holy s**t!! did you see what they've done with LE? i can't believe it!!"...ya know?...i wanna see people walkin' around with PTLE jersey's on like it's their favorite sports team..."i picked pro tools this week in my fantasy DAW league and they rolled out with a WIN7/PTLE 10.0 bundle!!!! holla!!!!"

digi, you can do it...c'mon.

detroitkruk
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  #20  
Old 12-27-2008, 05:03 PM
TheNobleRobot TheNobleRobot is offline
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Default Re: Pro tools 8 m-powered and vista 64

The thing that I think everyone is forgetting is that most major software packages (with the exception of Photoshop and Premiere Pro, and only in the latest versions) *DON'T* support 64-bit naively.

But... nearly all 32-bit programs work just fine in Vista 64, with no hitch or (appreciable) emulation layer, otherwise, it would be severely debilitating to run a 64-bit OS, and no one would do it. The only thing you can't run in Windows x64 are 16-bit applications (as compatibility was simply phased out).

The main problem, as I see it (and please correct me if I'm missing something) is hardware drivers.

And while M-Audio devices have had 64-bit drivers (first in beta) as long as 2 years ago, a provision in Pro Tools will simply refuse to let you run the program.

Now, considering the kind of work Pro Tools does, I'm sure it's a bit more complicated than that, but I've been running 32-bit versions of After Effects, Premiere, Photoshop, Flash, Audition (aka CoolEdit!) and plenty more programs for years on an x64 system, and all the plug-ins for those programs work just fine, and they can even access the extra RAM!

So I don't really see why ProTools LE can't run, as long as Digi puts out some Mbox drivers (hell, make them beta like M-Audio's first unofficial drivers).

While it sure would be nice one day, right now I don't necessarily *need* the advances of a 64-bit system (like I have enjoyed for video work) in Pro Tools, and so I don't expect a *native* 64-bit version, I'd just like to not have to boot into a separate operating system to work in it.

Hell, if you're not going to give me an MBox driver, why not allow me to do mixing and editing in 64-bit, and use my computer's sound card ASIO?

I totally understand that it's not a switch that can be flipped overnight, but there really is no excuse to not support any kind of even limited compatibility, especially since it's a standard for other high-end software packages, and it's something that these x64 OSes have been *designed* to allow.
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