Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Tips & Tricks

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-23-2002, 08:09 PM
JLEpperson JLEpperson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 474
Default Recording Loud Gospel Choir

I need advice on recording a 12 piece gospel soul choir. They sing very loud and with a lot of dynamics. I've been setting up 3 u87s in cardioid pattern about 8' apart. I put 4 Tenors on mic 1, 4 Sops on mic2 and altos on mic 3. Itend to get a lot of distortion, especially during the loud sections(These groups really have chops). I've tried compression as well as manually riding volumes. The results are distorted, thin and very uneven. I've tried API,Avalon 737, Prosonus M80 and Mackie pre amps. My compressor is a Manley vaari mu and a ACP-22) Any suggestions would be good.
Thanks
JE
__________________
JLE
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-24-2002, 07:43 AM
felixstone felixstone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Michigan
Posts: 31
Default Re: Recording Loud Gospel Choir

You might wanna turn the -10dB pad on. it might be the mic distorting.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-24-2002, 03:39 PM
CO2 CO2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: L.A.,CA USA
Posts: 394
Default Re: Recording Loud Gospel Choir

Hello JL:

Just a suggestion:

Why not set up 2 of the 87's in an X/Y configuration at the height of 8 feet and slightly behind the conductor's podium?

You would get a nice time aligned mix of the choir with a more natural blend (as heard from the conductor's perspective) than miking each section closely.

Just my humble opinion. Good luck!

Best Regards
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-24-2002, 05:03 PM
Philthy Philthy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 1,241
Default Re: Recording Loud Gospel Choir

I second that advice to give simple stereo mics a shot. With a strong, clean stereo pairing you can go a long way.

You could throw something easy in for sectionals like 57's just as a back-up or for tweaking balances in sections.
__________________
Phil Mann
Silk City Music Factory - CT Recording Studio
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-28-2002, 08:04 AM
PDupre PDupre is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Cohasset, MA 02025
Posts: 384
Default Re: Recording Loud Gospel Choir

I agree with the stereo advise. One of the things that makes a gospel choir sound the way they do is a lack of separation between the parts. Many times music is arranged into low , medium and high parts and men and women sing the part which is most comfortable for them rather than the SATB approach. I love that sound. So, to get as much of the sympathetic frequencies as possible, go with a nice stereo pair and you will be very pleased.

MHO - Peter
__________________
www.peterdupre.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-28-2002, 08:32 AM
JohnGalt JohnGalt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 169
Default Re: Recording Loud Gospel Choir

Ditto to the stereo pair suggestions. Keep it
simple. I actually prefer the ORTF (or is it NOS?) format which has the mics in cardioid,
about a foot apart, and turned 90 degrees
from each other. Better imaging. A more far-field approach will give a nice blend and will help with your level problem. If you go with the X-Y setup consider trying the figure-8 polar pattern on both mics if you want to pick up the room sound. Or, if you have the mics and the
tracks, put up a seperate spaced pair in omni
in the back to pick up the room.
__________________
When you once describe a venture as a holy war, you surrender all capacity to judge honest alternatives.
-James A. Michener
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-28-2002, 10:18 AM
batj batj is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Montreal QC Canada
Posts: 97
Default Re: Recording Loud Gospel Choir

have a stereo pair to keep things simple.

JohnGalt:
the method you describe is actually the NOS one 9from netherland radio)
the ORTF is 110 degree / 17cm apart (roughly the distance between the ears).
gives very good results, but if you are near the source, you'll have a hole in the middle of the stereo field (too much L/R separation)
solution: go farther away
2nd solution : put an omni or infra cardio mike in an isocele triangle figure (with the stereo pair)
mix it to taste.
Anyway, the X/Y method gives the best mono compatibility, if you have to consider that point (mono radio show, etc...)
The non-time coherent methods, though giving a better stereo imaging, can be problematic in mono
__________________
batj
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-28-2002, 11:57 AM
gerax gerax is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Modena, Italy
Posts: 1,615
Default Re: Recording Loud Gospel Choir

I'd go with the ORTF techinque, as I've used it more than once to record string ensembles and acoustic performances; I have to disagree with the fact that XY gives you the best mono compatibility: MS is the only truly mono compatible miking technique, and if used properly gives stellar results.
If you are recording in a large space (I guess a gospel choir is singing inside a church) a good technique to pick up the ambience is to use the Blumlein technique (XY position, bidirectional pattern on each mic), which will introduce few phase problems with room sound, unlike spaced pair or distant room mics.
Anyway, I'd go with a good stereo technique and I'd place a few spot mics (small diaphragm condensers, like KM184) a few feet away from the sections, just to pick a more direct sound should it be needed in mixdown. Ambient mics are good too, but watch out for phasing problems.

Good luck

L.G. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-29-2002, 12:59 AM
JohnGalt JohnGalt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 169
Default Re: Recording Loud Gospel Choir

Is there a gospel choir that ISN'T loud? [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I remember that my professor in college showed us a way to do an M-S without the
matrix box. He would mult the side mic into
2 channels on the mixer, pan them hard left
and right, and phase reverse one of the channels. The middle mic would of course
be on its own channel panned center. The
level of the side mic channels had to be kept
quite low relative to the mid mic-about -10 dB
or more below, or things would get wishy-washy.
__________________
When you once describe a venture as a holy war, you surrender all capacity to judge honest alternatives.
-James A. Michener
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-30-2002, 08:26 AM
joestudio joestudio is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 93
Default Re: Recording Loud Gospel Choir

Gospel singers WILL distort an 87. I'm having good luck with TLM 103 and 9098 pre's.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
choir recording stevesound 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 12 07-30-2005 01:04 PM
choir recording stevesound 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 1 10-28-2004 04:50 AM
Recording a Choir tolovpeace 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 6 03-12-2004 08:07 AM
Recording a Choir jiagap 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 10 04-02-2002 08:37 AM
Suggestions on miking a 32 piece gospel choir dancheung Tips & Tricks 7 03-19-2002 07:43 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:28 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com