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#21
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Re: Pro Tools LE to HD upgrade special: Open discussion
Hi Jenk2k,
Thanks for your post. You bring up some great points I'd like to address. Quote:
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Also, thanks for the support. We are working hard to assure that you remain a loyal customer!
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Tony Cariddi Avid Marketing Director |
#22
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Re: Pro Tools LE to HD upgrade special: Open discussion
Hi Tony,
I have been running PT for quite a few years (since 5.1.1) If you asked me 5 years ago about this upgrade I would have jumped at the chance. Then I built my first Quadcore computer. Wow is all I can say about that. Now I run an i7. I rarely ever have to leave a buffer of 64 and if I do, its to a buffer of 128. My sessions regularly run into the 50-60 track count. All have eq and compressor on the channel from my recording template. I may not use them as they are bypassed until I decide if I need them. I don't take them off. I have 6-8 versions of Eleven LE running as well as multiple verbs and delays with heavy automation and usually have any number of Hybrid/Xpand/Superior Drummer 2/Structure running. The only limitation I run into is not going to be solved by PTHD. The amount of ram I can access to run these VI's. I would rather pay digidesign for features such as OFF LINE BOUNCE and PDC. Just my opinion. DSP for the DAW market is pretty much over. Besides the artificial track/bus/io count there is nothing for me in HD. I love pro tools, but I fear if you guys keep trying to make HD stay alive, I will be forced to move to another software. Not because I want to, but because you will be bankrupt and the doors will be closed. Trust me, I don't ever want to see that happen. I stick up for pro tools in a market that is moving rapidly away. I know, I have many students at the school I teach that tell me everyday
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Sign up for all things....AWESOME! Kris May the music move you |
#23
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Re: Pro Tools LE to HD upgrade special: Open discussion
Hi Tony,
First welcome to PTLe Land. Now I used PTLE the better part of 7 years since 5.3. And have built and developed many a DAW for this community as in the Original Quadzilla with Shane. I have done everything I could to still use it but alas, When Logic 8 came out I went with it. Let face it I got off line bounce, PDC, AWESOME VI's and Plugin's and NO DAE errors. Now I still have a lot of good friends here that I still try and make PT a better place to live in and use. BUT Let face the facts: 1) In Logic 9 I can run 100+ sessions at buffer of 32, with countless ESX24 VI's, Video, Have a real working version of Elastic audio (called Flextime that does not distort.) also works as the best Beat detective and Drum replacer there is, In 5.1 surround,........ OH and did I mention that I was streaming this off of my Mac Pro hard drive to my Macbook Pro over a N wireless with no glitches. And good grief If I ever need power for those really big sessions 250 tracks? I can use Logic Node to off load those extra Plugins and VI's. And with logic Node you might ask how many nodes, as many Macs as you can own. And then there is REAPER............ Watch Out. 2)You speak of HD but why NOT also tell these LE user about the Problems that your are having right NOW with Windows PTHD 8.0.1 and 6031 errors? Glitches and Pops? And this is superior in what way? (I have several friends that are screaming over this and are back on 7.4) http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=256648 3) In 2 days Windows 7 is coming out and yet I will Guarantee you that it will be 6 months before you will have a stable 32 and 64 bit Windows Firewire driver. The good Part is USB does work in both. Now having said all this I still do care about your company since the lose of it only make one less in the competition and that is no good for any of us. I Real do wish you guys would listen to us As Shane And I proved to you about HD vs the multiple core processors 4 years ago when you brought a HD core card and Accel card out to prove that the original Quad was built that there was no way it could compete with DSP and HD and we all Know what happened after that or just read the Quadzilla thread if don't know. But yes I do still care about PT but the real question is does Avid care about us?
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"To Record Music Is All That Really Matter's!" "When Not Dealing with the Darkside!" Yoda (HOBO MASTER)"I'm Back from the NORTH POLE!" |
#24
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Re: Pro Tools LE to HD upgrade special: Open discussion
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The purpose of this thread is to support discussion over the benefits of upgrading from Pro Tools LE to HD, not to talk about pre-release software. Pro Tools version 8.0.3pr is pre-release software provided as a convenience for those who wish to begin their transition to Snow Leopard before a fully tested and qualified version of Pro Tools becomes available. We are certainly not trying to hide anything there. It will be the highest priority that Pro Tools 8.0.3 (the official release) ships without bugs. Avid absolutely does care about you, the customer– it is in our best interest to deliver solutions that work for you. That being said, everyone's expectations and demands are different. Pro Tools|HD continues to be a powerful solution for those who demand the dedicated processing that ensures peak performance when the CPU is pushed to its limits.
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Tony Cariddi Avid Marketing Director |
#25
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Re: Pro Tools LE to HD upgrade special: Open discussion
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First my mistake I typo 8.0.3 and meant 8.0.1 You must have read this wrong I was not referring to the Prerelease for Snow Leopard. This a HUGE problem follow the Link in the PTHD forum and see what is really going on. I Also truly hope that AVID/DIGI does care, The sad part is using outdated DSP chips is not the answer. Worked well in 2000 but not in 2010. We don't run 200 MHz Processors anymore. Only in the CNC machines that I repair for a living in fact they use the same Motorola and TI DSP chip for Axis movements. This is actual what these chips were developed for in the 80's for the Machine tool industry for Aerospace. Matt
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"To Record Music Is All That Really Matter's!" "When Not Dealing with the Darkside!" Yoda (HOBO MASTER)"I'm Back from the NORTH POLE!" |
#26
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Re: Pro Tools LE to HD upgrade special: Open discussion
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What's in that session? TransX Wide - 1 C1 gate - 5 SSL Channel - 2 RComp - 25 REQ 4 bands - 15 REQ 6 bands - 12 MetaFlanger - 3 C4 - 4 DeEsser - 6 RVox - 4 TrueVerb - 1 Q1-Paragraphic EQ - 1 IR-1 - 1 RVerb - 1 Doubler 2 DaD Valve - 21 DUY Wide - 1 AC2 - 20 AC 1 - 2 Chrome Amp - 1 Compressor Bank CB1 - 5 Filter Bank E6 - 2 Filter Bank F2 - 3 TimeAdjuster - 1 EQ 3 7-Band - 5 EQ 3 4-Band - 3 Cosmonaut Voice - 3 TL Space - 1 1-Band EQ II - 1 D-Verb - 2 Long Delay II - 2 Extra Long Delay II - 4 4-Band EQ II - 1 Also, about 60 channels of audio and approx 14 aux returns in the above session. The CPU meter on an i7 would drop to around 15% on that very session. What about recording in that session? As you can see, even with the artificial track limit of 16 I/O, that too is not a problem, even at a buffer of 64 and there's CPU to spare. What about recording MIDI in that session. Again, no issues, even at a buffer of 64. Keep in mind those old image shots are from an old Intel Q6600 Quad. The CPU meter will drop to around 15% on an i7. 128+ track sessions are no problem at all on the now "old and dated" Intel i7...and it's only a mere quad core that one can slap together for around $800. As you can see, pushing the CPU to it's limits on today's computers, even with the horrid performing RTAS engine, can be hard to do. Quote:
Fix Pro Tools. Overhaul the RTAS engine. Face the cold hard facts and go native, like you should've been preparing for years ago. Start recoding PT from the ground up. Again, something that should've started years ago. It's getting beyond "too little, too late" at this point. Digidesign/Avid Audio is doing a stellar job at making it's long time user base look for alternative DAW solutions, unfortunately, and HD(Had it's Day) is not one of them. Shane
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Pro Tools Power User Editing Give your plug-ins a facelift...and skin 'em! __________________ "Music should be performed by the musician, not by the engineer." Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM __________________ Pro Tools|HD Native 9.0.1 | Pro Tools|HDX 10.2 | Studio One | REAPER 4.22 | HD OMNI | HoboMac Pro 2.26Ghz Quad-Core | W7 Ultimate 64-bit |
#27
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Re: Pro Tools LE to HD upgrade special: Open discussion
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Thanks Matt—best reason to NOT buy an HD system I've ever heard!
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http://devinkerr.com |
#28
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Re: Pro Tools LE to HD upgrade special: Open discussion
I think Digi has hit a fairly critical point were just as many of the LE users are seriously looking at moving on vs moving up. The HD users are waiting for the next big thing. The LE users are waiting for the next big thing. And neither group is very interested in upgrading to the current offerings in the current climate.
It's not so much a perception of purchase price as it is value. In order to duplicate the value of my i7 rig I would need HD3 and 2 192's. That's roughly 10,000.00+ to gain ADC and a lot of post centric features I could care less about. And that value in the native rigs was added by AMD and Intel-not Digi and its poorly written drivers and slow to advance operating system support. While Digi has added some features to PTLE over the years its been the grassroots users that railroaded the performance increases on the PC side. The new prices are nice. Don't get me wrong. It's a generous offer. I've thought about HD but frankly the value is not there and its not like I couldn't make it happen if I wanted. Its simply not compelling. Some of us run LE by choice. Some of us feel it makes more sense. Bring something nice to NAMM and we'll all party. P.S. Not to bash you or Digi. Most of us are as passionate about Pro Tools as any of the employees and want to see the company do well again. Thank you for participating. We actually appreciate that even if the criticism is some times sharp. We've been Tuned In to PT for some time now
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Scott Formerly Hobo Wan Kenobi Core 2 Specs Page ASUS P6T6 Revolution | i7 930 | 12GB OCZ DDR3 1600 7-7-7-20 | PTLE 10 | CPTK | 003 | Presonus D8 | 11Rack | Alesis AI3 | Presonus HP60 | Mercury + Studio Classics | Sound Toys | MasseyPack | Axiom61 | MAudio Keystation Pro 88 |
#29
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Re: Pro Tools LE to HD upgrade special: Open discussion
I would like to thank everyone, so far, in this thread for the honesty and civility of this forum. It has been an enjoyable read. I believe Digi understands these needs, they must. Short of coming into our studios and seeing exactly what it is that we do with Native systems, I don't think they are going to get it without honest, fair, constructive criticism.
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We don't have the user centricity. Until we understand context, which is way beyond presence — presence is the most trivial notion, just am I on this device or not; it doesn't say am I meeting with something, am I focused on writing something. [LIST][*]Bill Gates .NET Briefing Day Speech (24 July 2002) |
#30
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Re: Pro Tools LE to HD upgrade special: Open discussion
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I've never seen anyone max out an HD 7 system so it's very unlikely one will max out a native i7 rig, let alone needing the power of both. Hence, that marketing pitch isn't gonna cut it for most of us. Now that we've established the power of native systems, convince us that the downgrade to HD is worth the overpriced investment in this day and age. Quote:
Shane
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Pro Tools Power User Editing Give your plug-ins a facelift...and skin 'em! __________________ "Music should be performed by the musician, not by the engineer." Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM __________________ Pro Tools|HD Native 9.0.1 | Pro Tools|HDX 10.2 | Studio One | REAPER 4.22 | HD OMNI | HoboMac Pro 2.26Ghz Quad-Core | W7 Ultimate 64-bit |
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