How does this make you feel?

[FatBelly]

Straatocastoer for you to have never had any problems you have been very fortunate. PT is very stable that we can agree on but for you not to have had a hiccup in PT you have been very fortune.

Again the post isn't about the VS Workstation it's about the plugs that aren't available
to us, not what we have. The point is that we are viable market yet we are passed by.

I'm not saying the VS is better or worse, have I not made that clear. The whole point is that
these plug in companies for one reason or another have deemed it more feasible to port
for Roland than for us.

It's not that hard to understand. I'm not trying to flame anyone but it seems that
no one that responds to this post gets the point.

Maybe because no one cares and everyone wants argue in defense of PT.

The VS-2480 was out long before the Digi 002R. I'm very glad that I purchased
the 002R and wouldn't give up, but that's not the point, it's about the plugs we can't
get not what we have.

So no we shouldn't talk about what we have, when the topics is about what we don't.


And I'm not hungry, no food needed here.

FatBelly Slim

[BigRedButton]

FatBelly

In all due respect, I think the reason not many people are responding to this post is because the topic of "why is "xyz" plugin not available for PTLE" is a bit tired.

There are a pile of great plugins that ARE available for PTLE, and EVERY recording system has it's own unique limitations.

As time goes on, more and more third party developers are designing RTAS plugins to run on both Win and MAC, and we'll only see that number rise. The responsibility for great RTAS plugins to hit the market relies mainly with the plugin developers. They know PTLE is here, and they know the RTAS market is ripe. Whether or not they want to respond, and take our money is up to them. Why gripe about it as if it's a PT limitation?

PTLE uses RTAS as it's native plugin type, and anyone who's purchased a Digi00X , should have researched what plugins are available beforehand. I'm not saying that you didn't, but why make a choice to go with PTLE and then complain about “this or that” after the fact? I just don't get it.

I'm also VERY surprised at the amount of time and energy some people spend on the area of plugins. I own a small handful of great plugins, and it's VERY rare that I ever find myself unable to do my job without what I have at hand. To me plugins are that LAST thing I worry about when it comes to choosing the right digital recording system. Many people (not pointing a finger at you) act as if plugins will magically "make" their product sound better, just like a guitarist that had fifteen FX stomp boxes in his chain, yet can't groove along with any amount of emotion in his playing.

Maybe I'm just venting, but the big picture is the PTLE / Digi00X combo is a great product and while some manufactures may NEVER choose to write plugins for it, I'm confident that I can continue to making a living with the tools I have chosen.

<cue the patriotic music>

Thank you.

[SSRJazz]

SSRJazz the Price difference is a very big issue I'm talking hundreds less for the same plug ins and format availability for the PC.

More than likely, it's cheaper to develop the plugins on that system because:

1) Roland has a cheaper/free SDK for their VS workstations
2) Roland REALLY wanted these plugin developers and/or plugins and made them all an 'offer they couldn't refuse."
3) The guys at Roland were smart and talked to someone and put a hardware VST host in the VS workstations, which would make porting VST versions of those plugins rediculously easy.

Those are off the top of my head...but any of the above is quite possible.

Developing anything to run on two vastly different pieces of hardware isn't going to cost the same on each respective platform. A programmer will take less time (and therefore less money) to develop something for a platform he's already familiar with. Some platforms are easier to develop for than others. The core mathematics of the plugins won't change, but how to display the interface to the human and the hardware itself will....and THAT what begins the price differences for a plugin that has version for the vs workstation, a mackie digital recording system, DirectX plugin, VST plugin, ProTools, etc.

Personally, I don't -care- if they're cheaper for the VS workstation. I use ProTools, I care if I can use it on my ProTools system. You obviously do care. That's nice...go dust off the VS and have fun. We'll still be using ProTools.

It has nothing to do with just switching formats and your response was unresearched and
uncalled for. This post was meant for those who care about the plugs that I mentioned
and evidentally you don't and it's clear you missed the intent of the post.

Obviously, you missed the point of -my- response. It wasn't a personal attack on you. I wasn't telling you to go buy a mac. I merely stated what -I- would do if I really wanted those plugins under ProTools. You -did- want feedback and personal opinions and complained about the lack of them, didn't you?

I also said there were a couple of the companies I hadn't heard of before and that -I- didn't care because I obviously didn't know what I was missing. I didn't say no one else would care. Now that I -do- know about them and their plugins...I just -might- care.

Please direct me to the TC Electronics plugs for RTAS or for that matter for LE users.

I stand corrected .... I could have sworn they had RTAS versions of at least MasterX and TC Tools.

Irregardless... you can still use a Powercore PCI card and the VST-RTAS wrapper from fxpansion.

http://www.fxpansion.com/faq-rtasadapter.php

Does it work with DSP boards like Universal Audio UAD-1 and TC Electronics Powercore?
Yes, but CPU performance may not be as good as when using these boards in a native VST environment.

PLease direct me to the a gaurantee from MCDSP that they will port for RTAS windows.

http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...&fpart=10&vc=1

They haven't commited to a time table yet, but they ARE going to port their plugins.

And before you point out that it's nice they said that, but they haven't officially announced anything, let me point out that as of a few weeks ago, you could have said the same thing about DUY plugins....yet here they are now.

UA plugs that are much cheaper than Bomb Factory Plugs

Ok, so buy the UAD-1 and their plugins and use the VST-RTAS wrapper. Some people like the way the UA plugins sound, some like the BF ones better, some don't care either way. BF isn't the same company as UA. BF and UA didn't develop their plugins in the same way. It may emulate the same hardware, but that doesn't mean it will sound exactly the same either.

And to be clear it would be nice to have plugs for reasonable prices that didn't have
to use adapters by third parties.

Yes, it would be. But if they spent the money to develop for RTAS (Which, btw, is more expensive because you have to PAY digi to get their SDK. You can get VST plugin SDK's for free.) it will cost them more than it did to develop the VST version so, as a business, they're going to charge MORE for that version because it -is- a smaller market than the VST market and they need to recoup those development costs somehow. Simple economic supply and demand at work here.

However, the reality is this: If you want to use those plugins in ProTools right now, this is how you need to do it. Maybe, if enough ProTools users bought these plugins and wrote the authoring companies of said plugins and told them "Hey...I use this under ProTools LE via a VST->RTAS wrapper, but I'd REALLY like a native version....and I'd even PAY for it." they might actually spend the development dollars to write it. They aren't going to write it if they don't see themselves making money at it.

And evidentally you haven't used VS workstations as of late, the convertors are much better
than your 001 16 quality pre's, smpte, word clock, jog/shuttle wheel, quality 56bit DSP card
based effects, 17 motorized faders and so much more, I'm glad I've got both.

For what one of the VS2480 workstations PLUS the VS8F-3 efx expansion board costs, I could buy a 002R, octopre 8 ch mic pre with adat i/o, and a command|8 control surface

VS2480CD from sweetwater: $3795
VS8F-3: ~$350

So, for ~$4100 I could have a:

002R: $1200
Command|8: $1200
Focusrite Octopre: $960
Focusrite ADAT I/O For the Octopre: $230
Total: $3590

Have I ever used a VS workstation? No...I haven't used them. But I have heard how they sound. I just do not care for them at all. The reason I do not care for them has more to do with how they compress and store that digital audio than it has to do with the A/D and D/A converters.
That's my opinion. I'm glad to hear they have upgrade the hardware. That doesn't mean I'll like them any better. Maybe they've changed the way they store the digital audio and maybe it sounds better. I'm even glad you're glad you have both. I still don't -care- about the VS workstations any more today than I did yesterday, but I'm glad you're happy with the equipment you have. I'm certainly happy with the equipment I have.

This is a ProTools forum, however, and I fail to see how this helps me use my Digi001 or ProTools better.

As for certain plugins being available on one platform but not another. That's just a fact of life. Plugin manufacturers are going to develop for a target platform based on if they think they'll make money on it or not....or a platform manufacturer makes them a really sweet deal.....that they'll make a lot of money from. (Just as I mentioned above)

[FatBelly]

Well SSRJazz I never said it would help you use your Digi 001, I just wanted to share
with other's in the forum, about something they, not only myself have expressed
a dislike about, not having plug ins that we want and not understanding why we
are last or left behind.

BigRedButton

I researched the Digi 002R before I purchased it and was well aware of the plug in situation.
I was just sharing with others about what Roland was able to negotiate, my mistake.


FatBelly Slim

[BigRedButton]

Please don't get defensive.

I stated several times in my post that I wasn't pointing fingers at you or implying that you didn't do research on the 002R before purchasing. However, you aksed the question "how does this make you feel", and I answered. It makes my feel confused as to why people complain about plugins so much.

You also said "I was just sharing with others about what Roland was able to negotiate", however earlier you stated this post wasn't about Roland, but rather Digi, so I'm confused.

I'm seriously NOT trying to pick a fight of get argumentative here, I'm just confused as to what kind of results you’re looking for in this post. You seemed put off that people weren't as up in arms as you were, and not responding much, but as soon as we did, you didn't seem to like what anyone had to say.

The bottom line for me is (and my departure from this discussion ) I hope that someday every time a plugin hits the market, it's RTAS Win friendly right out of the box, but I'm not going to loose sleep until then. I'll also rather likely spend my money on great mics, pres, and instruments, as that's where great sound comes from first.