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  #21  
Old 08-12-2001, 03:13 AM
adam_w1 adam_w1 is offline
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Default Re: Guitar tone in pro tools

I know the SM57 is one of "the" guitar cab mikes and it sounds good for some tighter rock stuff (as I was told as a young guitarist by an ever helpful engineer...'if I put this in front of your amp and it sounds **** , its because your tone is **** ' ...hmm..), but it might be worth trying a D112 as it has a big bottom and a built in prescence peak which sometimes works for the heavy stuff. Before you get all stressed with clever mic positioning and dual mics, just try some other mics, you might be surprised what sounds best. Then swap pres about, although your Neve should rock. Good results also from API & Meek (?!).

The JCM 900 out of the box doesn't have that
scooped sound, but still can rock, esp on the lower power (25w) setting, channel B, cranked up, with the preamp gain not up all the way. Although pedals generally rob you of tone, if you like the Tube Screamer, try the Jekyl & Hyde pedal. It is 2 tube screamer circuits chained together in a crazy looking box..pure evil. The speakers that come w/ the 900 are built for power handling, not tone, the older 25 watt ones sound great for crunchy guitar, but not the really heavy modern stuff.

Lets see..uh..hmm oh forget it..I could go on for days !

Anyone else ever use a multiband comp to squeeze just the the lows on really heavy stuff ?
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  #22  
Old 08-12-2001, 06:14 AM
Jules Jules is offline
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Default Re: Guitar tone in pro tools

And Jules, I'm aware of your (and some others') problem of getting distorted guitars to digital, but honestly I don't think I've ever had a problem with that. Quite frankly, sometimes digital can be better than going to tape first as Ampex for example can take a bit of the edge off, too much.However, BASF 900 seems to thicken it up a little. The enhancement is not as significant as it is on drums however in my opinion. Just exactly what kind of problems are you having anyway? "
-------
I think it's that digital reproduces the high end fizz, TOO WELL, FATSO will knock back some of the top end somewhat, this is not rocket science! it's a common problem, issue! Folks run into it with cymbals on digital, it is a different methodology to record them digi as opposed to tape.
I am also looking for a good origional sound source amp & cab....Messa, I think is needed.
Those are my 'problems' detailed for you...

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  #23  
Old 08-12-2001, 02:27 PM
jic3 jic3 is offline
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Default Re: Guitar tone in pro tools

music,

I think your sound will warm up more from experimenting with mics, mic position, and amp settings, and less from buying a lot of snazzy outboard gear. Don't get me wrong though. My typical signal chain is one or two of several mics mentioned below through an Avalon 2022, 2055, 2044, and then through an Apogee AD-8000. There definitely is a difference in tone between that chain and a Mackie 1402. A used a 1402 for several years and got great results;however, the differences are more subtle, than switching mics or moving a mic 2" one way or another. You should be able to get a nice warm sound through a basic mixer or interface. Cuting back on the presence and especially the treble on most amps helps warm the sound up immensely.

I have both a Mesa Boogie Recto Combo and a Mark IV combo. I have to say, as ballsy as the recto is while your standing in front of it, it's difficult to reproduce that intensity while mic-ing it. I'm still working on it. I have tried an SM-57, Royer R-121, Earthworks QTC-1s, AT 4060, and Sennheiser MD-421. I had best results with the royer.

The Mark IV on the other hand has a fantastic microphoned sound. The amp doesn't have the bass that the recto has, but it does respond very well to the effect a mic puts on the sound, and sits very well in a mix. I've had great results mic-ing the Mark IV with an R-121, SM-57, Senn 421, and A Beta 58.

One thing is for sure, I've always gotten an infinitely warmer and more pleasing tone by positioning the mic closer to the edge of the speaker, and not the center. The only exception to this was mic-ing a Line 6 Flextone combo. For this, a AT 4060 toward the top center part of the cab worked best for me.

Also, I did compare a pod pro to the mic'd sounds of the amps and, especially with high gain sounds, it just didn't compare. The pod is probably the best sounding tool of its kind, but it just didn't posses the full amount of magic one gets from using a mic. All of this is just what my ears have told me. I'm sure there are others who might disagree. What I can say is that I've spent a lot of time experimenting with and comparing guitar tones - particularly high gain sounds.

I have examples of some of these different sounds I would consider sharing if it would help.

Good luck,
John
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  #24  
Old 08-12-2001, 03:31 PM
div32 div32 is offline
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Default Re: Guitar tone in pro tools

Adam_w1 has a good point. I have used a D112 with a 57 to good result. I was trying to capture tuned down gtrs. Old Marshalls aren't the ticket (I have a '68 through a '78) unless you are going for a COC/Sabbath sound, in which case I'd recommend a '70s Marshall JMP and back to the tube screamer on very low distortion (almost zero). If you're going for new metal, check out different heads and you might try a simple A/B box to split off into two different heads, unless you want to drop a grand on one of those PCPs...Most amps will lack something and you need to find ones that compliment each other nicely.
Good Luck.
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  #25  
Old 08-12-2001, 09:10 PM
music music is offline
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Default Re: Guitar tone in pro tools

jic3

John, any sounds you could let me hear would be great. I am becoming a tone freak and am interested in all good suggetions. I really appreciate everyones comments. I haven't tried the pod pro, but I do own the Johnson J station and just could not get the thing to sound as good as a mic'd cab. i also put my jcm 900 in the low gain mode with the tube screamer and it warmed up quite a bit. I believe my cab is part of the problem. I am using a randall slant cab with jaguar speakers. They sound pretty fat but I have heard better cabs. I will probably at the minimum buy another cab, possibly the recto standard cab with vintage 30's or the marshall vintage 30's cab.

Yours in tone freakiness,

Keith
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  #26  
Old 08-12-2001, 10:54 PM
Corey Shay Corey Shay is offline
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Default Re: Guitar tone in pro tools

I forgot to mention that API vintage pres are the best I've heard on distorted guitars. They have a nice full bodied edge to them. Whatever you run through them usually demands your attention as it sounds larger than life. It basically has power to them.
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  #27  
Old 08-13-2001, 12:42 AM
music music is offline
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Default Re: Guitar tone in pro tools

Corey,

Which api pre in particular and do you know where might I find one?

Thanks,

Keith
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  #28  
Old 08-13-2001, 01:11 AM
Corey Shay Corey Shay is offline
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Default Re: Guitar tone in pro tools

Actually I think all API mic pres are the same and have been the same for years. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I've used both a 12 channel and 24 channel API console as an input stage very frequently, but I feel stupid and can't remember the model. I'll get back to you tomorrow. I've also been to a studio and used a rackmount API pre, and I recall it sounding every bit as good as the old consoles I'm used to.

I'm not sure who carries them for good prices, just check the usual channels. API's website is www.apiaudio.com
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  #29  
Old 08-13-2001, 02:20 AM
adam_w1 adam_w1 is offline
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Default Re: Guitar tone in pro tools

I think Corey is right, and I think pretty much they use the same 2520 op amp, a few buttons for pad, 48v, etc and a gain knob. I think the only option which might be different is transformer types on the in and outs. I have a rack of Averill API 312's, which are the same as the ones in the new 3124 four in a 1U box jobbie, but older. Umm...I mean vintage. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

got 'em from [url="http://www.brentaverill.com<A HREF="]brent" TARGET=_blank>www.brentaverill.combrent averill enterprises</A>

[ August 13, 2001: Message edited by: adam_w1 ]
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  #30  
Old 08-13-2001, 02:59 AM
Jules Jules is offline
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Default Re: Guitar tone in pro tools

I am, using 4 x API (new) 4 x Helios & 2 x Neve 1073 (vintage) outboard pre's, the Helios & Neve have eq too.
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