Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #101  
Old 03-26-2010, 04:58 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,567
Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

I have not used Structure since the first week I bought it. It was junk then, remained to be junk, and it's crazy that we have to pay for this. I would not have an issue if it worked right when they put it out, but it didn't. I use the term since the first week I bought it to make my point, I have tried it on a number of occasions for a few minutes after each PT8 update, but it remained junk each time.

Digid/Advid, whoever you are, it sucks that anyone has to pay for fixing issues that should not have been there from day 1.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 03-26-2010, 07:42 PM
Concerttom Concerttom is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: San Diego, Calif.
Posts: 120
Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunburst79 View Post
The saddest thing about this.

They could have been heros.
Right, and the oddest thing. Avid seems to have bent over backward to offer some pretty darn good deals for this package, especially for those who'd bought the full version of Structure and therefore (arguably) had the most legit gripe about its flaws. If the company'd offered these same deals along with gratis Structure updates to all license holders -- maybe even with a
Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
BIG WE'RE SO SORRY!!
or at least some kind of general explanation for the extended wait ("the coding was way more complex than we'd expected" or some such) -- this product release could have been cause for lots of large-thumbs-up and all-around good cheer.

Maybe they thought the deals were so good, nobody'd really notice or complain about a $49 charge for anyone who only wanted the Structure fixes, not any new features/content. Or that nobody could really grouse, since Avid was cutting profit margins to the bone on the rest of the VIs and "couldn't just give 'em away." Regardless, it seems they definitely misjudged the amount of negative blowback they'd be in for.

It's not too late, though. The set's only been out a couple of days. Avid, why not smooth over relations with your customer base by offering the Structure update for free if that's all a given PT user wants/needs (and refund those who've already paid)? It'd go a long way toward mending some frayed loyalties, which, ultimately, would be more profitable anyway than however many $49 updates you'd sell (most people would probably go for the whole PTIEP deal anyway, once they're updating Structure -- I, for one, did -- whatta deal!!).
__________________
MacBook Pro, OS 10.6.2, Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.6 GHz, 4 GB Memory, 003 Factory, PT LE 8.0.3, G-Tech G DRIVE Q 1TB HD

-------------------------------------------

'Wave of the future, Dude. One hundred percent electronic.' -- J. Treehorn
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 03-27-2010, 03:51 AM
Jay_uk Jay_uk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,231
Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

As has been intimated over on the Air Blog, any admission of failure regarding Structure could be construed as Avid being culpable = Litigation

Its one reason i suppose
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 03-27-2010, 08:38 AM
relaxo relaxo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,534
Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

I assume Russ put this out for the DUCers to see: Why Avid Charged for the Structure Fix

After reading that I feel 0% better about the last three years and now the latest chapter. Avid, three years can't be reversed, but what you should have done is exceedingly obvious. You should release a free Structure 1.0.5 with just the 1.1 fixes. PPC users who paid $499 for Structure to open their EXS libraries are now shut out. They'll NEVER be able to use $500 Structure for what they bought it for.

Avid, this whole episode has been a very Native Instruments style move. You've always had so much integrity and now this? Why?
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 03-27-2010, 10:14 AM
digidominator digidominator is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 33
Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyBass View Post
Well, I guess my sarcasm was lost in the writing. It was meant in jest.
right. you meant it sarcastically, as if a class action would not be possible or successful.

Quote:
Just never met one... but I am sure he exists. One that specializes in Tort/class actions is too busy to be a recording pro.
that makes no sense. you don't seem to understand what "tort" means. it is not a "specialty", per se.

and your opinion about who is "too busy to be a recording pro" is incorrect.

there are many people who have a lot of scope and who are able to do any number of things successfully.


Quote:
that depends upon the state in which you file.
that's false. in forma pauperis applications are available in every state, and at the federal level.


Quote:
If you had walked the isles of Music Messe in Frankfurt these last few days and talked to some of these businesses you would discover that these are not "routine" times... on a global level.
a lot of people don't waste their time at trade shows anymore.

anyhow, for some reason you seem to be fascinated with layman's economic theories.

Quote:
Public documents, public layoffs, etc... what would your analysis be?
i wouldn't bother. that's not enough to support an analysis.

Quote:
I don't think Avid is sure about what is going on. How could anyone else be sure?
but you don't know. you just think you might know. avid may be very sure about what is going on, and about what their plans are.

Quote:
I guess my ulterior [sic] motive is to keep our eyes on the big picture. 8.x fixes and not get sidetracked by 49.00 worth of "principles". But hey, it is "our" forum and you can beat the horse as hard as you like. SB
i'm not beating any horse. but you are trying to tell people that their rights are not worth standing up for, and that principles are trivial. you are telling people to let a company literally steal from them. that's absurd, in my opinion.

that's how things go bad, people telling people to disregard their principles.

anyhow, i am actually not uber-interested in this issue. but i see that this forum is almost constantly deluged with frustrated, angry people hurling threats, shaking their fists, and begging digidesign to fix their stuff.

and the angry comments that are posted are the exact type of comments one hears when people do not actually understand their rights, or how to actually stand up for themselves. they get frustrated and angry, but they don't ever do anything about their problem because they are not really sure of their rights, or how to proceed, or whether or not to proceed. or they are afraid that the big company will hurt them in some way. so they beg, and beg, and beg the company. people use words that sound threatening and pseudo-assertive, but they are actually just begging in disguise. people are understandably embarrassed by their lack of ability to obtain justice for themselves, so they use "tough" language, but it falls on deaf ears. the company knows that they do not have to respond, and that people will just keep begging and hoping and being frustrated.

the company just stonewalls everyone, because they can. especially where the people's comments are just internet postings that the company could actually just delete at will. especially where it appears that nobody is yet sending or faxing in actual, reasonable, written demands for refunds.

so i thought i would post some information to help people understand that they are in fact entitled to fair play in the marketplace, and that there is something they can do for themselves. i figure people may find that helpful and maybe they will then have the confidence and courage to actually go get a refund.

trying to justify the obvious wrongdoing of the company by saying that "times are tough" is ludicrous and in bad faith, in my opinion, and, apparently in most other people's opinion.

you walked around at a trade show and talked to people. how fascinating!

back on earth, people have apparently had their money stolen from them, and they want it back. no need to make them feel bad about it.

i have a pond with ducks behind where i am staying, and i have been feeding them bread recently. they seem to like it, and i like the ducks because they are generally happy campers, they don't bite me, and they just want their bread. :)
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 03-27-2010, 10:52 AM
BaileyBass BaileyBass is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,095
Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

Quote:
Originally Posted by digidominator View Post
that's false. in forma pauperis applications are available in every state, and at the federal level.
I was wondering how long it would take for you to reappear... and in what form. Welcome back, and the "new you" is going to bring a lot to the table. I knew that you could not stay away long!! SB
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 03-27-2010, 11:06 AM
Top Jimmy's Avatar
Top Jimmy Top Jimmy is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 5,065
Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyBass View Post
I was wondering how long it would take for you to reappear... and in what form. Welcome back, and the "new you" is going to bring a lot to the table. I knew that you could not stay away long!! SB
Oh gosh, he's not him, is he?
__________________
James Cadwallader

Hackintosh - Gigabyte Z77X-UP5TH, Intel Core i7-3770K, 32GB 1600Mhz DDR3, 2x SATA 6Gb/s 240GB SSD, 3x SATA 6Gb/s 1TB HDD, 1x Glyph 2TB USB3 HDD, Sierra 10.12.6.

Pro Tools HD 2019.10, Focusrite Red 8Pre, Mbox 3 (Mac)
Pro Tools 11.3.2, Mbox2 (Win 7)

Presonus Faderport, Pro Tools | Control
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 03-27-2010, 11:19 AM
Danny Caccavo Danny Caccavo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,279
Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaileyBass View Post
This is simply what companies do when they are in "survival mode", particularly a company like Digi, who in the past has had excellent customer relations and support. I do not think they are greedy....I do know that they have not turned a profit in quite a while. It is public information, which as a public company, they must divulge.
Walking the halls here in Frankfurt music-messe... Digi has a rather modest Venue booth.. and a few Elevens around at an M-audio distributors booth. Other than that...Nada. Waves is not displaying either, but you can pick up their ubiquitous orange W bags at Presonus, with whom they have forged some kind of relationship. (studio live)
Granted that there may be no reason for digi to show.... there is one big reason not to; Cost. Any company who is charging 49.00 for a fix, and conserving cash at the largest industry show in the world.. is in Survival Mode.
Given that, I have no problem providing a 49.00 Stimulus Package to a company who has helped me make some great music, and that seems to be forging ahead despite the tough times.. SB
Hear, hear. I just opened this thread for the first time today and wondered, "Wow, when did the Tea Party start posting on the DUC?" Sure, Structure has been plagued with problems from the start. Not Digi/Avid's best moment by far! But if Structure were as important to my workflow as is must be for so many of you then $49 ain't nothing. Get over it.

Now, I have great sympathy for the PPC early adopter guy, 'cause he can't spend the $49 dollars. But he's also a victim of Apple, who should have jumped to Intel much earlier (I hate to think of how much money the Nubus to PCIx to PCIe and the PPC to Intel transitions cost Digidesign/Avid!)

Sure, I'll probably get flamed for being an "Avid apologist" but get real, folks. If you really need Structure, sacrifice a video game update or two and shell out the $49. Avid morals? Gimme a break. Campaign finance reform? That's something to scream about!

dc
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 03-27-2010, 11:27 AM
TimNielsen TimNielsen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,192
Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

I appreciate all the work Russ does on his blog. But reading what he wrote, IF that's the line that Avid is taking 'we can't legally give it away', then that is the most ridiculous, BS thing I have ever heard.

Seriously, this whole thing is leaving such a bad vide for this company. I've given them tens of thousands of dollars over the years. And this ridiculous 'no comment' approach is only killing them.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 03-27-2010, 11:34 AM
woodsdenis woodsdenis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 506
Default Re: Paid Structure Fix?!? Without Morals, Avid is Not Digidesign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Caccavo View Post
Hear, hear. I just opened this thread for the first time today and wondered, "Wow, when did the Tea Party start posting on the DUC?" Sure, Structure has been plagued with problems from the start. Not Digi/Avid's best moment by far! But if Structure were as important to my workflow as is must be for so many of you then $49 ain't nothing. Get over it.

Now, I have great sympathy for the PPC early adopter guy, 'cause he can't spend the $49 dollars. But he's also a victim of Apple, who should have jumped to Intel much earlier (I hate to think of how much money the Nubus to PCIx to PCIe and the PPC to Intel transitions cost Digidesign/Avid!)

Sure, I'll probably get flamed for being an "Avid apologist" but get real, folks. If you really need Structure, sacrifice a video game update or two and shell out the $49. Avid morals? Gimme a break. Campaign finance reform? That's something to scream about!

dc
Well Danny in case you havnt realized Campaign finance reform isnt a big issue outside of the USA and I dont live in your neck of the woods. A Tea party over here is where you drink tea and cucumber sandwiches.You would understand this if you actually realized that there is a World outside your little cocoon.

In fact I am the poor PPC guy, and yes you can blame Apple partly. The blunt fact is, if you look at the time when Structure was released most Protools users were on PPC. We have been waiting years for this to be fixed. When finally it is fixed I cant use it even if I wanted too. I think I have a right to be pissed dont you. I dont work in a facility where everyone has a top of the range machine supplied for them and paying for software isn't an issue. In my world it actually does matter. I paid
for every piece of hardware and software I have from my own pocket.

By the way this is only my second post on this, and I am not getting involved in discussions about lawsuits etc that IMHO is daft. I accept the way things work, but your post is really arrogant and from someone who should know better.

If you dont realise that a lot of people think this sucks then you should really take a reality pill. Also I think it would be fair and honest of you to at least inform people that you worked for Digi for many years.
__________________
Denis

Mac Pro 3.3 hexacore
24 gb RAM
Lion
PT 10 HD Native
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why is "PAID" Avid support so slow? Eric Lambert Pro Tools 10 19 08-10-2012 12:26 PM
VI (Structure) Content duped in Avid AND Digidesign Libaries lowlights Windows 1 06-02-2012 09:40 PM
VI (Structure) Content duped in Avid AND Digidesign Libaries lowlights Virtual Instruments 0 06-02-2012 02:32 PM
Avid/Digidesign paid RTAS plug-ins getz76 Pro Tools 10 6 10-21-2011 03:50 PM
Paid Update Structure Inquiry puuukeey Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 6 08-21-2006 04:11 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:16 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com