Is the forum better or worse since the adding of the new mods?

[CME]

Overall I see no issue with what's been done around here. IMO, and it's just that an opinion, is the new mods aren't paid pros. They're doing this of their own free will. However they're in a position of authority and sometimes it's hard to separate your personal feelings from your moderator authority. So maybe they do get carried away. I've not personally noticed it. But it'd be hard not to, especially if there's little incentive to keep them separate.

However I do wish they'd leave some of the tangents in the thread instead of moving them. Or move them to a new thread with a title like "(insert previous thread title) tangents/OT posts". White Castle and daft punk have both prospered from some of these tangents. Anywho before I go off on one. I'll just say it could be better, but I don't think there's been any egregious errors. But again only my humble opinion.

[Bruce Paine]

Except for the very beginning of the moderator program, the mods have not moved any threads or individual posts, or deleted posts. That may have been done by an administrator, but not a moderator. The main admins on the forum are from Tech Support, and myself (the original forum admin from 1998, back after a hiatus in 2012).

The mods send me an email if they see a post or thread that belongs in a different forum, but not often, and really only to make it easier for the target audience to see it. Like a Mac question posted to a Windows forum, for instance.

There are currently 20 moderators that post in varying volume, some more than others. These folks were mostly frequent longtime frequent posters with tech skills in their particular forums. If anything, they have posted less than when they were not mods, frankly because of threads like this one.

I honestly believe that there is more of a perception that being a moderator makes someone more authoritative. These are the same guys that they were before, and just because they have "moderator" instead of "member" under their name, that's no reason to think they are out to get you. They're here to help people. But they get to be human too, so keep that in mind.

This has always been a pretty loosely moderated forum, we really only ask that people state their opinions politely. Because it is the internet, sometimes offense is taken where none is intended, or more offense than was intended. That happens, but on this board, it usually doesn't mean that someone pushed your buttons on purpose.

[Bill Denton]

First off...I plead "guilty" to "lengthening the White Castle thread" by contributing to it...Mea culpa...

But back to the topic at hand...

Personally, I like having the additional and more involved moderators.

I actually wish they would be more "heavy handed", and shut down threads a little more often.

While I recognize the value in allowing people to "vent", there have been quite a few threads that have devolved to where they are the same people saying the same thing over and over again.

I don't know how others use the forum, but when I come on the first thing I always do is click the New Posts link, then scan any threads I find interesting, or that I have previously been following.

Experience has shown me that threads that have otherwise turned into total uselessnes will sometimes contain the occasional "gem". But to find these "gems", I often need to wade through 20 posts that are nothing more than dross.

I don't think the board needs to be as "dry" as the Mojave Desert, but I would prefer that we develop a more "professional tone".

I think this will naturally occur once PT 11 becomes a fait accompli, and I hope that will then become the norm...

[Eric Lambert]

Thank you for the explanation, Bruce! That's helpful.

Originally Posted by Bruce Paine

If anything, they have posted less than when they were not mods, frankly because of threads like this one.

You know that to be true, or that's your guess? I assume a guess because some mods are showing up a lot more often. Also, if their posts have diminished, it would be tough to know why. Have you been told that they're posting less because of prior threads which have raised this question? I've not seen any such threads and previous posts which have brought this issue into question have been doused and locked.

Originally Posted by Bruce Paine

These are the same guys that they were before, and just because they have "moderator" instead of "member" under their name, that's no reason to think they are out to get you. They're here to help people. But they get to be human too, so keep that in mind.

Some are certainly NOT the same guys they were before because now they have editing capabilities. Before, when they tried to force the hand of another person's opinion it didn't affect censorship because it was just an exchange of words between two or more forum members. NOW, they can actually steer a thread if they disagree with another person's opinion.

This seems to be one of those dialogues which doesn't move far from its starting place and I knew that going into it. You're comfortable with the new level of moderation or you're not. It was initiated as a question.

I know what it's like to get that Mod avatar - I moderate a large forum - and the urge to nudge a discussion in the direction of your opinion is tempting, especially when the badge is first placed on your vest, but anyone who reads this thread thinking that it's a stab at the forum is sorely mistaken. It's the best interest of the members which is in the spotlight. The life of a thread VERY often comes from tangential thoughts and as mentioned above those tangents are being withdrawn in the name of "honing the discussion." That puts blinders on the spirit here and it will eventually become more stagnant. I've seen it happen 20 times to other forums.

So my final cerebral geyser: keep your mods confined within the borders of what is "necessary." That's all.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Meads

In the very thread you quoted in your original post, for example. Just, that the moderator (or one of the others) deleted this post quickly after it has been released.
I don't care about mods or no mods. Who cares if threads go out of hand? This is the internet. You can close the window, when there's something going on you don't like, without it altering your life.
I'm also fine with mods regulating when things go out of hand. I grasp the concept, even though I would not call for it.
However I find the subtle arrogance that's lingering since the introduction of mods a bit off. I liked the DUC better before. Also I think it's too many of them.
There's not going on that much wrong on these pages that needs to be attended that often by that many authorities, imho.

I don't think there's been any more arrogance now than there was before. That's just a perception. I and many others care if a thread gets out of hand. Remember the whole brouhaha with Marsdy and Waves/aax dsp? A lot of bad words on both sides that didn't need to be said and should have been shut down earlier. It's precisely your attitude of 'well it's the internet and that's the way things are' that contributes to that type of thread situation. Things here don't need to be like that - they can be polite.

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

So the only way for you to explain this thread is by applying vengeance as its motive? That's absurd. No, I don't think I've ever been called out by a mod in my 15 years hanging around this forum.

That's precisely the type of accusation I was referring to -- I share an opinion (shared by many others) and because that opinion doesn't parallel your own you feel that I must have an ulterior motive.

If you weren't personally affected by it than why are you even worrying about it? If you want wild and wooly that's you but that doesn't mean we all have to put up with it.

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

Agreed. And sometimes the arrogance isn't so subtle.

I get it - some take their mod status a little too serious, and weight is thrown around. It happens on every forum, initially, but most forums don't have nearly this many mods. Even GS, which has, what, 25 mods, and much MUCH more activity, is over-policed. But they've realized it and scolded their mods on several occasions for abusing their position.

Arrogance? I've seen no attitude that wasn't deserved. Maybe what you term 'arrogance' is just the new moderators looking out for Avid and PT?

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Bruce Paine

Except for the very beginning of the moderator program, the mods have not moved any threads or individual posts, or deleted posts. That may have been done by an administrator, but not a moderator. The main admins on the forum are from Tech Support, and myself (the original forum admin from 1998, back after a hiatus in 2012).

The mods send me an email if they see a post or thread that belongs in a different forum, but not often, and really only to make it easier for the target audience to see it. Like a Mac question posted to a Windows forum, for instance.

There are currently 20 moderators that post in varying volume, some more than others. These folks were mostly frequent longtime frequent posters with tech skills in their particular forums. If anything, they have posted less than when they were not mods, frankly because of threads like this one.

I honestly believe that there is more of a perception that being a moderator makes someone more authoritative. These are the same guys that they were before, and just because they have "moderator" instead of "member" under their name, that's no reason to think they are out to get you. They're here to help people. But they get to be human too, so keep that in mind.

This has always been a pretty loosely moderated forum, we really only ask that people state their opinions politely. Because it is the internet, sometimes offense is taken where none is intended, or more offense than was intended. That happens, but on this board, it usually doesn't mean that someone pushed your buttons on purpose.

Thank you Bruce for the explanation. Personally I like the way things are being handled now and hopefully we won't have another debacle like happened with Marsdy/Waves aax dsp situation with the new mods watching things. If that type of situation never develops again it'll all be worth it.

[sunburst79]

Bruce is pretty on point here.

I for one have been posting less. Part of it is that everything we post gets over scrutinized some times. The whole PT11 introduction has been a bit of a "work in progress" and the details have been evolving as we get closer to the introduction date. Each mod has there own particular personality and that may reflect in their posting style. Its important to recognise what's opinion and whats fact. I try to distance Avid from any opinions I write or point them out as opinion.

I've accidentally "Edited" a couple of posts by hitting the EDIT button instead of the QUOTE button. Each time that happened I believe I got the original post back intact. But the post will forever show as edited. Even if its quoted in the next post. I'm not here to play hall monitor or conform opinion to any personal agenda. Although I retain the right to opinion. Like anyone I can become irritated but I'm unlikely to hold any kind of grudge. I'd like to think most mods were asked because they were even tempered. The idea is that the forum becomes a a better place, questions get answered quicker. spammers swept away sooner. The odd post or thread that needs to get moderated gets handled in a more timely fashion. And actual issues get escalated to those in charge quicker. I think that's starting to work. Although it may not be obvious at the forum level.

This will turn out to be a good thing in the long run.

[Meads]

Originally Posted by musicman691

I don't think there's been any more arrogance now than there was before. That's just a perception.

So that's your perception, I guess.
Am I entitled to mine after all? And is mine as right or wrong as yours? Thank you, that's quite kind.

Originally Posted by musicman691

It's precisely your attitude of 'well it's the internet and that's the way things are' that contributes to that type of thread situation. Things here don't need to be like that - they can be polite.

If you quote me, then please quote me correctly. That would be "It's the internet, and if I get offended by something, I could leave at any point I want. Or I stay. Up to me, I'm a grown up."

And no, you're wrong. Actually the opposite is correct:
If this was everybody's attitude, things would not get out of hand, because everybody would be either relaxed or already gone, because he'd have chosen not to participate.
I have never been in a fight here at the DUC, so don't blame my attitude to contribute to fights.

Originally Posted by musicman691

Things here don't need to be like that - they can be polite.

+1

[elicious]

have to disagree with the op on this one.
been reading the duc daily now since about the late 50's
and my opinion is the mods are a net plus to the community.

i remember well such train wrecks like the move to colored trax
and how in one upgrade (8,9, or 10, can't recall)
dism and emcha (both mods now?) were doing avids work, i felt, for them.
i.e. squashing down rumors or bad info, etc.

imo, i've seen the opposite in the threads you referenced,
with a few (only a few) reacting, i feel, much too sensitively,
to the mods showing, well, a personality… which i like reading.
(have you read psychomonkey?!)

best,
e
for the record studios

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Meads

So that's your perception, I guess.
Am I entitled to mine after all? And is mine as right or wrong as yours? Thank you, that's quite kind.

If you quote me, then please quote me correctly. That would be "It's the internet, and if I get offended by something, I could leave at any point I want. Or I stay. Up to me, I'm a grown up."

And no, you're wrong. Actually the opposite is correct:
If this was everybody's attitude, things would not get out of hand, because everybody would be either relaxed or already gone, because he'd have chosen not to participate.
I have never been in a fight here at the DUC, so don't blame my attitude to contribute to fights.

Never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, just that there's a right way and a wrong way to say it (and again not saying you have done so one way or the other) and not come off the wrong way.

And I have to say that you are wrong about the DUC wouldn't deteriorate if everybody had the attitude of 'it's the internet and I can do or say what I want' because we have had and still have people that think that and when they post it makes things not so nice. Sometimes people don't get the hint that their posting style isn't quite right and think they can do no wrong and they have a right to do so. 'taint so. There's too much non-respect on the net and sometimes here as well and those who post like that just don't get the hint to straighten up.

Again not saying you're one who does so - just stating my feelings.