Pro Tools Driving Live Performance

[emluper]

Yes, but unfortunately it is SMPTE based not tick based. What I would do is place an MMC Locate command in the snapshot AFTER the FIRST MMC Stop command and after every additional MMC Stop command needed. PT will locate to the proper SMPTE position after stopping and will then be ready to play. Then all you need to do is add an MMC Play command to the appropriate snapshots. You'll need a MIDI interface and there are cheap 1 in, 1 out MIDI interfaces out there for around $50 or less.

As far as your PT session, build them the way you're used to and then add SMPTE as the primary timebase ruler. Hit your locate points and figure out what the EXACT SMPTE locations are for your markers and enter those as the MMC locate point in your VENUE snapshots. It's a little bit of work but when you're done you'll look like a mad scientist to the rest of your team. BTW, be sure to go into the Peripherals section of the Setup Menu in PT to assign PT as an MMC slave. Check the manual if it gets a little dicey.

Good luck, and let us all know how it goes.

Erik

Just checked on my system, you DO NOT have to have SMPTE as the primary timebase ruler. You can keep bars, beats as the primary and have SMPTE as the secondary.

[TwoPort]

So.. I'm finally getting around to Venue snapshots starting the songs in the Pro Tools Play list.. I got some basics done but not all of it.. Let me specify a little more clearly what we're doing now.

- I got a long play list in pro tools (70 songs)
- For different shows the song order changes and some are not even played so I reasoned that I needed each of the the snapshots to "self contain" all of the commands on locating, starting, and stopping. (if its possible).
- Then i just name the snapshot the song name and I'm off the races...

What I was hoping to do each snapshot was:

1. Locate a start point.
2. Start Play
3. When the song gets to a certain subsequent location
4. Stop Play.

The reasoning was that each snapshot is it's own "standalone" capsule for each song....

Here's where I got:

1. "Locate" a specific start point - works awesome!
2. "Play" - Starts the song - works awesome!

-- Then I'm stuck --

What I haven't been able to do is figure out what other commands I would include in the snapshot so it "waits" (or "watches" until the track gets to a subsequent location in play where I want it to stop and then issues the Stop Play command.)

I started to consider having Venue track MIDI time code from Pro-tools and etc. but then thought it would be better to ask first......

[Sheldon Radford]

Hi,

Cool setup you have going there!

In order to automatically stop the Pro Tools transport from the VENUE console the console needs to know when the song is over. The easiest way to do this is to have the console chase MIDI Time Code (MTC) being generated by Pro Tools. Note that only the "Stop" snapshots need to be triggered by MTC (see the "Enabling Snapshots for Automated Recall" section in the Synchronization chapter of the User Guide). The "play" snapshots can still be manually fired.

So to sum up:
1) Song snapshot is manually fired and contains MMC locate and play commands.
2) This starts Pro Tools, which generates MIDI Time Code feed to console.
3) At the end of the song a second snapshot is automatically fired according to the stored Time Code location, and a MMC Stop command is sent to stop the Pro Tools transport.

Note that this approach requires a "Stop" snapshot for each song. An alternate approach is to create a single, generic "Stop" snapshot placed at the end of the snapshot list, which is fired by sending a MIDI program change command from Pro Tools to the console. This same MIDI message would be placed at the end of each song, and always recalls the same generic snapshot. The down side to this approach is that recalling the generic snapshot also selects it in the snapshot list, which disrupts the cue list running order if you use the "Next" button to step through cues.

Sheldon

[TwoPort]

Originally Posted by Sheldon Radford

In order to automatically stop the Pro Tools transport from the VENUE console the console needs to know when the song is over. The easiest way to do this is to have the console chase MIDI Time Code (MTC) being generated by Pro Tools. Note that only the "Stop" snapshots need to be triggered by MTC (see the "Enabling Snapshots for Automated Recall" section in the Synchronization chapter of the User Guide).

(This is too much fun) I worked with the chase function but I seem unable to configure Venue to Chase Pro Tools... Here's where I'm at...

1. Have Digi MIDI I/O
2. Port #1 plugged in Venue MIDI "Out"
3. Port #2 plugged in Venue MIDI "IN"
4. Pro Tools is set to Slave on 127 (and Master is not enabled)
5. Venue has a couple settings for send/receive channels which are both set to 1
6. When I select the Chase button it goes blue but "that dog won't hunt" the way I've configured it so the numbers don't chase in the bottom box.

I realize it's user error based on lack of configuration knowledge. Can we get a little more specific on the Venue & Pro Tools MIDI config?

[Sheldon Radford]

Hi,

Getting closer...

5. Venue has a couple settings for send/receive channels which are both set to 1

These MIDI channel settings only apply to receiving/sending MIDI program changes and snapshot, they're not for MTC (which doesn't use a specific MIDI channel). In fact, it's best to set the "Snapshots Send on.." and "Snapshots Respond to..." to different channels, as this prevents any chance of a MIDI feedback loop.

Now, here's what to do, in order:
1) On the Options > Snapshots page set the MTC mode to Read
2) On the regular Snapshots page turn on the CHASE MTC button
3) Turn on the MTC Recall button (green light) for each snapshot you want recalled via MTC.

Sheldon

[TwoPort]

Originally Posted by Sheldon Radford

Hi,

Getting closer...
These MIDI channel settings only apply to receiving/sending MIDI program changes and snapshot, they're not for MTC (which doesn't use a specific MIDI channel). In fact, it's best to set the "Snapshots Send on.." and "Snapshots Respond to..." to different channels, as this prevents any chance of a MIDI feedback loop.

Now, here's what to do, in order:
1) On the Options > Snapshots page set the MTC mode to Read
2) On the regular Snapshots page turn on the CHASE MTC button
3) Turn on the MTC Recall button (green light) for each snapshot you want recalled via MTC.

Sheldon

Did all that. (send on 1 and receive on 2 on the venue config) I created a snapshot and created an "event" that is simply to chase Midi. Turned the Midi light Green. Selected that snapshot and Recalled it but the Midi Time code just showed blanks at the bottom of the screen. I played pro tools but Midi never chased... I fired it while Pro Tools was playing and when it was stopped, etc...So I can get the Venue to still play the songs but won't chase Pro tools...

[Sheldon Radford]

Hi,

From the sounds of it the console isn't seeing the MTC. When present, the MTC format is automatically detected and displayed on the Options>Snapshots page when MTC is set to Read, and the incoming MTC counter is shown in the bottom right corner of the screen. Double-check all MIDI connections, as well as any MIDI related settings in Pro Tools as well as any MIDI/audio interface setups that might apply.

To isolate where the problem might be, start by verifying the console's MIDI ports are functioning:
1) Save your current show file and do a Clear Console (Options>System)
2) Use a single MIDI cable to connect the console MIDI out to its MIDI in
3) On the Options>Snapshots page check the "Snapshots respond to channel" box; leave the default channel 16 as is, and leave the "Snapshots send" box UNchecked.
4) Create two snapshots. The content doesn't matter.
5) In snapshot 1 add the following MIDI command: Program Change, Ch 16, Program 1 (the Prog Change command is indexed starting at zero, so Program 0 = Snapshot 1, Program 1 = Snapshot 2, and so on)
6) Make sure the MIDI scope button is red, then recall snapshot 1

If the console MIDI ports are working then snapshot 2 should automatically be recalled immediately after you've manually recalled snapshot 1.

Other things to try:
- Reverse the MIDI In and MIDI out cables (I know it's obvious, but it happens to me all the time..)
- Verify the MIDI connections to Pro Tools are working by using a loopback method similar to what was described for checking the console ports. I.e., add a few MIDI commands to a track, then setup another track to record the looped back MIDI data.
- If the console lopback didn't work pop the cover off the FOH Rack and verify the MIDI connectors ont the top I/O card are plugged in.

Sheldon

[TwoPort]

Got it working. Amazing!! It was only a simple configuration issue on the pro tools side. I had failed to configure the session itself to generate MTC. (I get a hammer in the head for that...) So even though all of the communication settings everywhere else were fine - the session itself was not configured properly.

Of course it provided me with the opportunity to learn more about the overall configuration of Venue and PT and it is amazingly simple and reliable. My main mistake was sort of "starting in the middle" rather than starting at the beginning of configuration of PT, etc. Like most things - once I started at the beginning it went super quick.

Anyway - running the PT session from Venue snapshots is much more predictable and reliable. Thanks!

[Veijo Esso]

Hi!

I have a new system coming which includes Venue Profile Mix Rack 48/16, HDx-card and Pro Tools|HD 2 Accel system.

I downloaded the D-Show standalone software 2.71 and I already learned from here (thanks!) how to make a system where Profile sends a MMC messages to Pro tools (MMC locate and MMC play) and Pro Tools sends MTC to Profile to drive snapshots etc.

What I need is a configuration where you can record about 30 tracks and same time playback click and some other tracks to monitors and two sound effect tracks to audience (so about 6 tracks back to Profile). Is this possible?

And the best setup would be if you can send MMC "record" command to Pro tools...or should it work with MMC "play" command and some Pro tools setup?

Janne

[emluper]

Veijo,

It's not possible to send an MMC "record" command from Profile, but if you want to get a Frontier Designs Tranzport or Faderport, you can send a wireless record command to Pro Tools while the Tranzport sits on the Profile surface. Pro Tools will play back your 6 tracks while recording the other 30, just make sure that you take the time to properly configure your Pro Tools session and Profile patchbay.

For the playback tracks you want to use the Assignable Tracks from HDx. These are 16 "floaters" that can be assigned anywhere because they don't use the Stage Rack preamps. Set the output in Pro Tools to the proper assignable channels, and set the patchbay inputs for the channels you want to use to the reciprocal assignables and you're ready to rock. Take you time and you'll do fine.

Erik