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  #21  
Old 06-03-2019, 12:41 PM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
That´s weird because when I drop a SMPTE order on PT it displays SMPTE.

Maybe it´s not reading metadata as should. I´ll give it another try.
If it’s your re-arranged “SMPTE” file from the already exported actual SMPTE file, the audio in order 1-6 will be all out of whack, as will the metadata. Just export the file directly out of Pro Tools and do not re-arrange the order. It’s already in SMPTE order with the correct metadata.
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  #22  
Old 06-05-2019, 06:19 PM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

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Originally Posted by its2loud View Post
If it’s your re-arranged “SMPTE” file from the already exported actual SMPTE file, the audio in order 1-6 will be all out of whack, as will the metadata. Just export the file directly out of Pro Tools and do not re-arrange the order. It’s already in SMPTE order with the correct metadata.
http://avid.force.com/pkb/KB_Render_...4di&lang=en_US

The last point is interesting. Maybe it is exporting Film order, but with metadata other apps which want SMPTE order it that way.

Also earlier in the document it states that SMPTE ordered WAVs (with correct metadata) will show as Film order in Pro Tools.
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  #23  
Old 06-05-2019, 08:35 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_lowe View Post
http://avid.force.com/pkb/KB_Render_...4di&lang=en_US

The last point is interesting. Maybe it is exporting Film order, but with metadata other apps which want SMPTE order it that way.

Also earlier in the document it states that SMPTE ordered WAVs (with correct metadata) will show as Film order in Pro Tools.
It's been established that is wrong. Over and over again on the last point.
Here's a 5.1 export viewed in QT7Pro so you can see channel order. Clearly SMPTE and not film. Avid has it wrong in the FAQ
QT7Pro will show Film order if it is received that way (and you can change order from the area I'm showing if you need to change a file.) There is no bias in QT7Pro toward one order or the other.

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  #24  
Old 06-06-2019, 01:35 AM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

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Originally Posted by BScout View Post
It's been established that is wrong. Over and over again on the last point.
Here's a 5.1 export viewed in QT7Pro so you can see channel order. Clearly SMPTE and not film. Avid has it wrong in the FAQ
QT7Pro will show Film order if it is received that way (and you can change order from the area I'm showing if you need to change a file.) There is no bias in QT7Pro toward one order or the other.

Thanks for confirming (again). I was sure about the SMPTE thing, but that document being from this year, along with Paulo’s experience made me doubt it!

Avid’s left hand needs to meet their right hand!
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  #25  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:09 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

I’ve asked the development team to update the document to avoid further confusion.
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  #26  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:32 AM
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paulo m paulo m is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
It's been established that is wrong. Over and over again on the last point.
Here's a 5.1 export viewed in QT7Pro so you can see channel order. Clearly SMPTE and not film. Avid has it wrong in the FAQ
QT7Pro will show Film order if it is received that way (and you can change order from the area I'm showing if you need to change a file.) There is no bias in QT7Pro toward one order or the other.

Ah, glad you mentioned this, because here´s precisely where things go wrong, again, based on my experience.

QT is in fact expecting an SMPTE file order. The order that is visible on your QT screenshot is actually not showing what QT detects, but the way "it expects it to be". But it´s still Film order as exported from PT. The first time we did it for Netflix, it got rejected because channels were in wrong order, guess which...

So, you need to re-arrange the order manually on that same menu and then export as a new movie.

Steps:

1-Export to QT from PT. Your channel order is going to be Film.

2-Open in QT 7 and go to Movie Properties.

3-Re arrange the SMPTE order shown to Film which is what in fact it is.

4-Export as a new movie(.mov file). Make sure you export settings are set to Movie to Quicktime Movie. Before exporting, you will also need to go into Options/Sound Settings and choose the apropriate SMPTE channel order, bit rate and FS.

Then you´ll get the right SMPTE order on the new re-mapped .mov file. You can then add your Lt Rt which is basically a stereo mix with it´s channel names renamed from LR to Lt Rt, again done on QT. Then you save it as a self contained movie and voilá. Film order exported from PT, re-mapped into QT and exported as SMPTE.


So, I still think that the AVID doc is accurate and up to date. If it´s not, it would be interesting if someone from AVID could explain why is not and correct it as should.
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Last edited by paulo m; 06-06-2019 at 07:35 AM. Reason: spelling
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  #27  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:53 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Probably a QT7 thing. Or something that PT does when exporting/bouncing to QT.

Not happening when recording interleaved BWAVs or exporting them as interleaved BWAVs (command-shift-K)

I can assure you that PT is exporting BWAVs in SMPTE order. They show up in Soundminer, every DCP creation software I've dealt with as SMPTE. Even QT X shows it as SMPTE and Reaper as well.

Frank.
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  #28  
Old 06-06-2019, 11:39 AM
Pete Gates Pete Gates is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Probably a QT7 thing. Or something that PT does when exporting/bouncing to QT.

Not happening when recording interleaved BWAVs or exporting them as interleaved BWAVs (command-shift-K)

I can assure you that PT is exporting BWAVs in SMPTE order. They show up in Soundminer, every DCP creation software I've dealt with as SMPTE. Even QT X shows it as SMPTE and Reaper as well.

Frank.
Yup,
It's because Pro Tools buses internally to the QuickTime engine that does the actual rendering of the file in this case. And because Pro Tools internal bussing is in film order it gets rendered as a film order QuickTime. It's neither Pro Tools' fault neither QuickTime's, it's just an annoying compatibility/crossover issue. 5.1 multichannel files created by the Pro Tools file API (recordings/bounces/exports) are in SMPTE order, absolutely definitely, have investigated the actual byte structure of the files themselves several times over the last few years to verify this.

Pete
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  #29  
Old 06-06-2019, 11:40 AM
Pete Gates Pete Gates is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
So, I still think that the AVID doc is accurate and up to date. If it´s not, it would be interesting if someone from AVID could explain why is not and correct it as should.
Nope, it really is wrong.

Pete
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  #30  
Old 06-06-2019, 01:38 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 file channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
Steps:

1-Export to QT from PT. Your channel order is going to be Film.
Lets's start here. The file I'm showing is just an interleaved audio consolidated and exported from Pro Tools 2019.5. It is not being"export to QT."
I'm just showing a standard 5.1 interleaved BWF as it is outputted from Pro Tools as read by QT7 Pro or QTX or Waveagent. They all agree. You can put channel blips, de-interleave the tracks and pull them back as monos into Pro Tools and they will show it is SMPTE by channel order.

As for the rest, you've got to realize a lot of us here on the forum do exports/deliveries to Netflix. And it all goes without a hitch.

Something in your workflow is the flaw. The files that come out of Pro Tools ARE SMPTE format without a doubt.
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