Latency with Apollo thunderbolt

[juh]

Hello

I'm about to buy an UAD Apollo 8 to use it on PT11. Right now I'm working with an old Apollo duo firewire.
I often use virtual instruments on instrument tracks and every UAD plugs add big latency so I can't play the instrument with my keyboard.

Will the latency be reduced with thunderbolt ?
How much will it be ?

Any other solution ?

Thanks!

J

[Darryl Ramm]

Your virtual instruments are not running on the UAD DSP. So what native latency do they ad.... Basically what buffer size is your session running at?

You have everything in front of you to work out what is going on, and that is much more efficient than us having to ask you lots of questions.... Since you have not provided a lot of useful information about what you are actually doing. (Pro Tools versions, buffer size, basic system info, etc, what exact VIs, what UAD plugins, so e idea of session complexity, etc).

Start with not using UAD anything and just the Vis, and understand the latency seen there.

Then understand what exact UAD processing plugins are you using and what the expected latency of those plugins are. There is very good information in the UAD documentation for that, and for minimizing UAD plugin latency in general. UAD plugins not run through the UAD console are expected to add significant latency as they require high IO buffer size to run reliably. And any upconverting or similar UAD plugins can have inherently high internal latency. The bus limiters etc. Are just a no go for real time processing, working exactly as documented and expected. Depending on what you are foing you may even be better off monitoring through native (or no) post VI plugins or printing instrument tracks and doing plugin processing on any UAD plugins you want to use at mix time.

The latency you are seeing is likely dominated by buffer size (which is? At what sample rate?) or using inappropriate UAD plugins, neither will likely directly be fixed by going to a thunderbolt Apollo, but the more efficient thunderbolt Apollo may let you operate at a lower IO buffer size.... But if you have not tried tuning that down that buffer size (and maybe sample rate?) already and carefully optimizing your system or trying alternate workflows you may be wasting your time, swapping UAD hardware is not where I would start to solve whatever issue you are having.

[sw rec]

You do have ADC enabled, I trust?

[juh]

Hello

Thanks for your answers, and sorry for the lack of information.

I'm using PT11.3.1 on Yosemite with a Macpro 2013, and a UAD apollo duo firewire. Freq rate usually set to 48k.
The latency problems I have are the sames regardless of the VI or UAD plugins.

Let's say I have a session with one instrument track containing Kontakt 5. I usually set the buffer size to 128 or 256 so I can play the Kontakt instrument without audible latency.

If I add a UAD plugin on the same track (Moog filter for instance), the delay value displayed at the bottom of the track is 1143 samples.

So impossible to play the instrument with my keyboard, to much latency.

Changing buffer size value or misc options in the playback engine has no effect.

The most surprising is that six months ago I worked with PT10 and the same gear, and latency value was only about 600 samples with DAE set to 128 or 256.

So I was wondering if I'd get better results using an apollo 8 thunderbolt instead of my actual apollo duo fw.

I hope it's more clear..

Thank you

[Wall2Wall]

Don't play VI's through UAD plugins or any plugins with huge latency. Play your VI parts and then put the UAD plugins on during mix time. UAD plugins have tons of latency which is not a problem for mixing since ADC takes care of that. Also make sure Automatic Delay Comp is ON in Pro Tools and make sure you do not have any plugins on the master fader while recording.

TB bandwidth and latency results is better than FW, but there is no way to get around the huge latency as the UAD plugin has to go to and from the UA card.

[juh]

Thank you Wall2wall, this is what I used to do so far (UAD only for mix time), but I was looking for a solution to play and compose music in PT, using UAD plugs.

I think I definitely have to forget this idea ..:)

[YYR123]

Yeah it's not the best

I can track with slate plugs and avid plugs, but that's about it

TB latency is better but the plugs still have to process the sound......over sampling which is why they sound so dang good

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by juh

Thank you Wall2wall, this is what I used to do so far (UAD only for mix time), but I was looking for a solution to play and compose music in PT, using UAD plugs.

I think I definitely have to forget this idea ..:)

Yep. That is just not what the UAD plugins are really intended for. Do this processing at mix time (as you were), and/or find a native plugin that works for you.

If you were tracking say a live synth you could run the UAD plugins in the UAD Console, but a VI is already running inside Pro Tools so banging back out again to the console is not the same.

[YYR123]

Then there is this....

Originally Posted by YYR123

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