Upgrade Recommendations Please

[paul_g]

Hi DUC,

Long time member here. From my signature block, I've got some old gear and it's time for a tech refresh. PT has been crashing on my 2007 iMac. I've uninstalled, reinstalled both PT/OS, etc, trashed prefs, etc.. Not to mention I can't run any newer software on it. It's time to do a tech-refresh. I spend more time troubleshooting than being creative. Even my KRK Sub woofer is dying. I need a NOS part in order to keep that alive, but last check KRK/Gibson was closed due to Covid. My LaCie Audio drive is also dying.

I would like to start from scratch with new gear/computer/software, but on a budget. I currently have 16 CH I/O now and longer that much I/O. I never have touched the faders on the 003, I do everything in automation, so I don't need a control surface.

My intent is new gear that is compatible with my Helix and other newer software. I'd like to streamline and get rid of the mess of wires and rigging I have now. Use Case: Just recording guitar based music, keys, bass, tune-track drums, and vocals. I do no social media, no live streams, I'm too old and don't have the time. LOL. :) Most of my guitar amps (aside from Helix) are all tube. Think old school guitar guy. :)

I'd like to stick with Mac, I'm thinking of a new 27" iMac SSD. Is that a good idea?

Given all that, what would be a decent "home" setup if I were to stick with ProTools? New version? Will all my old Waves plugin's work or will I need new in-the-box mixing plugins? What about a decent I/O unit? The UA look very good, but very pricey (as UA should be.) Also, I'd like to keep my PreSonus DigiMax FS light-pipe. What about an SSD external Audio drive?

Not asking for the dream tech-refresh, but what could someone accomplish for under $3K (including MAC).

I'm open to all suggestions and appreciate the help.

[Darryl Ramm]

Macs are about to switch from Intel to ARM processors. Expected to be announced tomorrow at the Apple WWDC. New 24" intel iMac is expected to be announced and then Apple is expected to replace that with an ARM based model late this year.... so may not be a good time to buy a new Mac. But if you really need something now you may have no choice. And I'll be surprised if Avid gets Pro Tools on ARM working well for quite a while, so all a potential mess.

You have a limited budget and want to swap everything.. that's may be hard on this budget. Maybe you should give more details of the problems/troubleshooting you have done and see if you can get that system working better for you??

Given you the Mac change about to happen... if it was my Mac I would really consider if I could work around any problems for a while, or maybe consider buying a lower-cost refurb Mac.

Your 003 does not have driver support on recent macOS versions so I get you wanting to replace that... but you have not described what features you need/are using on the 003. There are lots more great interfaced available now. really nice interfaces from UAD, Apogee, Moto, RME, etc. lower end ones from Focusrite and Presonus etc. Just go to any major audio dealer's web site and start to look there for ideas. Ask here if you need help with features/capabilities. Thunderbolt is a nice option, with lower latency that USB, but adds cost. How are you getting 16 IO now? Do you have outboard ADAT preamps? (edit yes I see you have a Presonus ADAT preamp). So you want an interface with ADAT? That gets you up in the >$1k+ price point. Bu so much here unknown that nobody has any chance of giving you useful advice.

"I need new in-the-box mixing plugins?".... "in the box" usually means in the DAW, you are talking the opposite here... You mean stuff running outboard in Waves boxes... but no you don't need that (and way outside your budget) Waves AAX-Native plugins are still available, it's AAX-DSP that Waves gave the finger to Avid about. You will likely have to reup your Waves license... and include that cost in your budget.

Are you on a Pro Tools license renewal subscription? If not you need to include in cost to reup that to new perpetual licenses, if a dealer can still do that, or switch to an annual license subscription. Call a dealer like Sweetwater or Vintage King to help you sort this out. Don't try to understand that yourself in the Avid store.

[Darryl Ramm]

If you do get a new Mac with SSD, the best place to run you sessions is on the fast internal PCIe/NVMe SSD. The harder question is usually how much space you need for VI samples, and if they can also fit on that internal super fast SSD or if you need to put them on an external SSD (in which case a slower USB/SATA SSD like a Samsung T5 would be the way to go if on a budget. If you have older drives that work OK you can still use them, but will be giving up lots of performance).

And you need to see what exact Mac you are looking at but most today do not have upgradeable on-board SSD... so my usual advice there is to configure them with the largest SSD you can afford. Which with Apple SSD pricing... it does gets expensive.

Do not buy any Mac with an internal HDD, and certainly not with the Fusion drive silliness.

On a tight budget a Mac Mini, or refurbed Mac Mini might be a good choice, especially if you already have a spare monitor.

Don't skimp on memory. I would want 32 GB or more DRAM on a modern Pro Tools Mac especially if to use VIs... you need to be clear if you can buy a minimal memory config mac and upgrade later of if that model is not posible to upgrade (or is hard/required opening up an iMac say) and in that case you should look for more DRAM in the initial config to get it to a last several years.

[Darryl Ramm]

It's not clear what exact iMac you have now.. an EMC number would help.

But it's likely upgradeable to 6GB DRAM if you don't have that already, and you can replace the internal HDD with a SATA SSD.

It's even possible to upgrade the CPUs on these iMac's but typically only to a slightly better processor so really not worth the hassle.

[paul_g]

Hi Darryl,

That is a lot of good information, especially about the pending Apple updates that are bout to happen. Regarding my version of ProTools, I purchased it outright when 10.x came out, after a series of upgrades from 8.x LE through 9.x LE. I don't have a subscription or renewable license. I own my copy and all my licenses reside on my iLock.

I used to know my mac model number off the top of my head, but no longer. I can take a look at it later. I know it's a mid-2007 Intel that is capable of upgrading to 6GiB of RAM, but I am only running 4GiB, and that was after an upgrade I did. I also upgraded the internal HD to an SSD about 5 years ago.

When building this rig back in 2007 (iMac, PT, 003, etc..) I bought the Factory 003 because at the time I believed I needed a surface with faders, but later found out I was wrong and never touch the surface, unless turn the monitors up/down... So a control surface is not required.

I'm not in a hurry. This was something that through 2007 - 2012 was way more than a hobby, almost semi-pro'ish. Over the last 8 years I've let it go, but just starting to get back into a little bit of recording for personal use.

I'm essentially doing a scorched earth policy to start all over. Won't be the first time. Started in the 80's with a Tascam 4-track cassette tape, Roland VS-880 in the late 90's, upgraded to Roland VS-1880 in the early 2000's, and then made the jump to Mac/ProTools/003 by 2007. Now 2020, it's time to rethink about things.

Thanks for all your input! :)
Cheers!

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by paul_g

I'm essentially doing a scorched earth policy to start all over. Won't be the first time. Started in the 80's with a Tascam 4-track cassette tape, Roland VS-880 in the late 90's, upgraded to Roland VS-1880 in the early 2000's, and then made the jump to Mac/ProTools/003 by 2007. Now 2020, it's time to rethink about things.

Hi, Paul. I also have my roots in the eighties with the 4-tracks. I built a studio thru the nineties, but had to let it go because of health problems. Last ten years I've been keeping my old 2008 mac pro running with PT10 and decent converters and monitors.

The last year I felt more and more that the old rig, though still very capable, was keeping me left in the dust.

So I'll just tell you what I did. I bought a used 2017 imac and connected a couple of fast SSDs, cost around 800 dollars. A focusrite 2i2, very simple, cheap interface but I think it sounds great, and will be supported and work for many years. As will the imac.

The imac is of course not a pro machine, but even with an i5 processor and only 8gb ram, I can run PT2020 with lots of tracks and plugins, I only need to know how to not exceed it's power limits. I even have it running a 50" TV and my calibrated BenQ display for photo work.

I added a ipad for portability, 400 dollars.

Now I have a modern setup with latest software, iphone, ipad all synced and up to date. And for surprisingly small cost. And best of all: I really love how smooth everything works, syncs, and flows with the latest OS and applications.

I wish you all the best.

[albee1952]

Lots of good advice already. With a new(or newer) Mac, going with a thunderbolt interface makes a lot of sense(to me anyway). As for the KRK sub, if its the 12-SHO, by all means get it fixed. But if its a Rokit 10, toss it and get a Presonus Temblor T10. It outperforms the Rokit 10 in every way, and you might find a clean used one for under $300. I just put a single T10 in my new mix room as its small(9x11), but when I had my Nashville studio(14'x21'), I put a pair of T10's behind the desk and never did find the limit of how loud they would go(my Genelec 8050A's ran out before the subs)

[paul_g]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

Hi, Paul. I also have my roots in the eighties with the 4-tracks. I built a studio thru the nineties, but had to let it go because of health problems. Last ten years I've been keeping my old 2008 mac pro running with PT10 and decent converters and monitors.

The last year I felt more and more that the old rig, though still very capable, was keeping me left in the dust.

So I'll just tell you what I did. I bought a used 2017 imac and connected a couple of fast SSDs, cost around 800 dollars. A focusrite 2i2, very simple, cheap interface but I think it sounds great, and will be supported and work for many years. As will the imac.

The imac is of course not a pro machine, but even with an i5 processor and only 8gb ram, I can run PT2020 with lots of tracks and plugins, I only need to know how to not exceed it's power limits. I even have it running a 50" TV and my calibrated BenQ display for photo work.

I added a ipad for portability, 400 dollars.

Now I have a modern setup with latest software, iphone, ipad all synced and up to date. And for surprisingly small cost. And best of all: I really love how smooth everything works, syncs, and flows with the latest OS and applications.

I wish you all the best.

Hi Jenssen, that is great advice to go the used route at least to get me over the hardware / software limitations of such an old system. The Focusrite has always been good quality, had some of their rack gear in a pro studio. I'm looking at the 18i20 Gen 3. A lot of bang for the buck. The UA Apollo series looks nice, but a lot of money.

Originally Posted by albee1952

Lots of good advice already. With a new(or newer) Mac, going with a thunderbolt interface makes a lot of sense(to me anyway). As for the KRK sub, if its the 12-SHO, by all means get it fixed. But if its a Rokit 10, toss it and get a Presonus Temblor T10. It outperforms the Rokit 10 in every way, and you might find a clean used one for under $300. I just put a single T10 in my new mix room as its small(9x11), but when I had my Nashville studio(14'x21'), I put a pair of T10's behind the desk and never did find the limit of how loud they would go(my Genelec 8050A's ran out before the subs)

Hi Albee, not it's not the Rokit series, it's a Gen1 KRK 10-S. The part I'm looking at is $237.00.... a little more will get me a new sub, but the part is the entire guts sans the speaker & cab, and the speaker is good, so no sense in getting rid of it. It does what I need.

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by paul_g

Hi Jenssen, that is great advice to go the used route at least to get me over the hardware / software limitations of such an old system. The Focusrite has always been good quality, had some of their rack gear in a pro studio. I'm looking at the 18i20 Gen 3. A lot of bang for the buck. The UA Apollo series looks nice, but a lot of money.



Hi Albee, not it's not the Rokit series, it's a Gen1 KRK 10-S. The part I'm looking at is $237.00.... a little more will get me a new sub, but the part is the entire guts sans the speaker & cab, and the speaker is good, so no sense in getting rid of it. It does what I need.

The 10-s was even worse than the Rokit 10(I owned both). The price of the part is most of a T10 and you won't believe the difference(but, hey...its your money)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Presonus-Te...kAAOSwWbNepgeU