protools export to final cut?

[anders]

Does anyone else encounter these problems?

I work at -20 ref. when i export files for import back into
final cut pro, so a client can output to tape, the overall levels are too low. the levels consequently need to be raised in final cut? because the clients are outputting from final cut to consumer equpment they can only use trial and error to arrive at a proper level.

Should i be outputting at a hotter ref level? Someone suggested -12 as a ref level.

Thanks

[Tiago Silva]

What do you call "consumer equipment"? Analog Beta? DV? Is it for broadcast? VHS? DVD? Remember that analog outs of consumer equipment (like Final Cut) are -10dBu at 0VU (sometimes -14dBFS-Tascam DA88, nowadays more like -20dBFS) and professional equipment (like betacams) are +4dBu=0VU. That means that if you connected them directly, you'll need to raise the inputs pots on the recording machine by 14dB (that means +14dB's of noise...). Get an interfacing box, if your problem is electrical level matching. If not, read on; it may be your mixes...


1) At what sound level are your monitors when fed -20dBFS?

2) How much headroom are you using over -20dBFS?

3) How much are you compressing the peaks?

If (for example) you have the monitors loo loud at -20dBFS (let's say 83dBSPL and you're working for TV) you'll mix softer and use less compression, because you can hear soft sounds louder. If you're not compressing the sound, you may have a peak to average ratio of several dB's below -20dBFS and STILL use up all your headroom with peaky sounds. That means that if later your mix is raised, those peaks will distort. In analog you'll get drive, in digital you'll get clip.

For TV, I can offer some guidelines. I'm not very experienced in mixing, so please take these with a grain of salt and *experiment*:

1) calibrate your monitors to -20dBFS=78dBSPL (make sure your monitors can put out 98dBSPL without distorting)

2) use only 10 to 12dB of peak headroom above your reference. That will ensure that any analog equipment that your mix gets copied to won't distort. You'll have to compress hard for TV.

3) with compression, get a level for speech that is a little louder than "everyday life", but peaks around -15dB (ballpark figures...).

4) use a maximizer like the Waves L1 on your master bus. It will pull the mids out of the mix and help the sound to get out of the tiny speakers of TV's. It will also squash you mix and distort in the process, if you're not careful. Don't let it reduce gain more that 4dB.

5) And remember that "levels too low" usually mean that the client is getting sweaty because it doesn't see the VU meters moving. You may have peaks of 00dB digital, but VU meters are average power meters, and won't react unless a high sound is sustained for an amount of time (the exact spec of which determines if a VU meter is a real VU meter or a fake). Give them AVERAGE levels around 0VU and peaks at +3VU and see them smiling even if they have no idea of how loud, soft or squashed the sound is.

[anders]

thanks tiago

here is the signal chain for most of my clients who are doing DV projects in final cut pro.

they import my mixes into final cut and output via firewire. this becomes thier master from which they dub vhs copies very likely at home. or they have this minidv transfered to beta or digibeta to use as a screening/dubbing master. however, in the latter case i don't hear about level probelms as the transfer house prbably gets the levels correct.

anyway to answer your questions-

i calibrate to 85 db. very often these films are screened at fests. although my rooms is not huge, i've found success in my mixes translating to screening rooms.

i try to stay within 8 db of my ref. i try to keep the dynamic range fairly tight, using compression if needed.

Finally, it's not an issue of the client not seeing hot enough meters(they are likely not aware of the audio meters) I have noticed that in final cut pro, the default bars and tone test tone is -12dBfs.

would exporting mixes at this ref (-12) when they are meant for final cut output make sense? with 8 dB of head room that still would be safe.

i guess this gets back to my orig questions.

any help or suggestions are appreciated