calling all mastering gurus

[jlcnyc]

Hey everybody -
I know the pitfalls of DIY mastering... however I'm intrigued by mastering - so I enjoy trying to improve my mastering skills and overall understanding of the process.(fyi - I've attempted to read the Bob Katz book - much of it was over my head)

Most of my product is in the urban/ hip hope genre - so obviously the loudness wars are in full effect.
In my attempts to faux-master my mixes, my typical chain is usually some combination of:
(IK ARC room correction)
McDsp (AC1 and/or AC2) - light compression and analog warmth
McDsp or Waves EQ - subtle eq tweaks
Waves multi-band compression - tons of trial and error!
Waves stereo imager
Sonnox Inflator
Sonnox Limiter

I have a session setup that includes various commercial mixes so I can instantly A/B between my mix and the "pros".
I guess my basic (yet complex) question is: How do the pros get the loudness and still retain some sense of headroom? My metering shows certain pro mixes hitting around -5 on the RMS scale, yet they still sound somewhat "open". It's obviously more complicated than just slamming the limiter. Where should I be focusing? Is multi-band compression the secret weapon? or really expensive gear? or golden ears? all of the above?
I do not discount the decades of experience the pros have (I've played guitar professionally for many, many years - the shortcuts are few) Just wondering if someone could shed a little more light on the quest for hot (and open) competitive mixes.

thanks in advance

[pmklein]

My suggestion is to keep playing guitar and send the mixes out to a professional.

[JFreak]

Secret to open-sounding master is an open-sounding mix. IF the mix is good to begin with, you can slam it to zero dynamics and it will still sound better than a bad mix without a limiter. That's about it, and a job of a mastering engineer is to not ruin the good mix...

Skip the McDSP and Waves stuff while you try to learn mastering. The less plugs you use, the more open it sounds. Less is more. Sometimes all you need to do is ask the mixing guy to mix it again

[Rammelt]

And try Parallel Compression along with upward expansion in certain bands as well.

[crizdee]

Originally Posted by jlcnyc

(I've played guitar professionally for many, many years - the shortcuts are few)

thanks in advance

I don't play guitar, how long would it take before i could play a professional guitar solo?

There's no one thing, or one plugin or one tip to getting great masters! especially very loud masters that still sound good!! that's an even harder task.

Every mastering engineer will have their own approach and choice of equipment, though nearly all will have some Hi-End outboard, a tuned room and great monitoring, with 10+ years experience.

If you really want to do it yourself, then try Ozone plugin, its the best all in one mastering plugin! that makes it easy to get reasonable results, but its no substitute for separate processors in the chain.

If you've got something important that's going to be released or its going to be part of your career path, then get it done professionally.


Chris

[waltz mastering]

Originally Posted by jlcnyc

Most of my product is in the urban/ hip hop genre - so obviously the loudness wars are in full effect.

I guess my basic (yet complex) question is: How do the pros get the loudness and still retain some sense of headroom? My metering shows certain pro mixes hitting around -5 on the RMS scale, yet they still sound somewhat "open". It's obviously more complicated than just slamming the limiter. Where should I be focusing? Is multi-band compression the secret weapon? or really expensive gear? or golden ears? all of the above?
I do not discount the decades of experience the pros have (I've played guitar professionally for many, many years - the shortcuts are few) Just wondering if someone could shed a little more light on the quest for hot (and open) competitive mixes.

As you said, it comes with years of experience and having the right ear and gear.

Imho/e, retaining the perceived dynamics and transient impact and punch while also giving the sense of perceived loudness is a skill that takes years to learn.

Having a good analog chain, da/ad and monitoring is a big plus. Knowing how to gain stage properly, being able to see into a mix and being able to decipher what needs to be done in order to have tonal balance, translation, continuity, and clarity is a learned craft.

Knowing how to utilize processes like mbc, parallel compression, or M/S processing can help but are merely tools that you can reach for in the rare instance and situation.

Every project is different.

Just slamming a limiter can usually yield very poor and unpleasing results.
If that's all there was to it people like Brian "Bass" Gardner and even my little old self would be without of a job.

[pmklein]

Originally Posted by crizdee

If you really want to do it yourself, then try Ozone plugin, its the best all in one mastering plugin...


Chris

Agreed. Also, T-racks 3 Suite is really good. If you're going the software route, these are better than chaining a bunch of plugins together, imo.

[jlcnyc]

thanks for all of the replys and advice
I agree - professional commercial release = let a pro handle it.
But I'm trying to grow/learn - not just farm things out.
(if somebody told me they wanted to learn how to play guitar - I would advise patience and dedication.... but I wouldn't tell them to hire a session guitarist to play their parts for them)

FWIW - I once used a "reputable" mastering house and I was disappointed in the results. As I compare numerous "hit" commercial releases - some definitely sound WAY better than others. Moral - choose a mastering house that mastered something you dig!

thanks again for the replys

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by jlcnyc

FWIW - I once used a "reputable" mastering house and I was disappointed in the results. As I compare numerous "hit" commercial releases - some definitely sound WAY better than others. Moral - choose a mastering house that mastered something you dig!

Sorry, but the mastering job accounts for probably less than 10% (sometimes less than 1%) of the "finished" product.

The fact is, unless you heard the track before mastering (which rarely happens unless you're involved) you have NO IDEA what mastering did.



Otherwise I commend you for trying to broaden your talents, good luck.

[O.G. Killa]

the part of mastering that you are talking about, level, is more about gain staging and than anything else. You have to understand how different compressors work and understand how chaining them together changes the sound of the final product.

It sounds to me like you are trying to master your project using a compressor...and maybe a peak limiter?

The way to achieve the sound you are after is to do the opposite of what you think you should do. Most mastering engineers hit their L2 (or whatever peak limiter) very lightly, so it's attenuating by maybe 1dB at most.

In that regard, try moving backwards through your chain. Set your limiter (L2, L3, L2007, Whatever) so the threshold is maybe at -1 or -2dB. Then start inserting stuff in front of it to try to get the level up to where it is compressing by no more than 1 or 2 dB.

It's a common misconception that mastering is about slamming the limiter. It's really about tailoring the dynamic contents of the material so the limiter only has to work a little bit at the end of the chain.

And just FYI... most mastering studios I've been in/worked with end up using anywhere from 3 to 6 different compressors, 2 or 3 limiters, and 2 or 3 EQs in the chain. They also usually mod the gear so bypass is a true "hard" bypass. That way they can put something in bypass and take the electronics of the device completely out of the chain.

In most mastering studios there is usually an analog AND digital chain that the signal passes through. On the digital side of things I see a lot of Weiss EQs and compressors. On the analog side of things I see a lot of manley and Pultec EQs and compressors. When getting projects mastered at Capitol, Bernie Grundman, Precision, Marcussen, Lurssen, and Collins audio, I have never seen any of them use plugins in any capacity except for dither. That's not to say you couldn't make a great master using plugins... but it is saying that you can't expect any two pieces of equipment analog/digital/plugin to sound the same. A Manley VariMu sounds like a manley varimu and no digital or analog device sounds quite like it. Likewise the Sonnox Inflator plugin sounds like no other plugin out there...

But the guys you are trying ot emulate ARE NOT using the same pieces of equipment you are using. While the equipment is only a small part of the sound a mastering engineer gets... it still makes a difference when you have the right tool for the job and can hear how to use that tool. To make an analogy, You can't drive a nail into wood with a screw driver. Likewise you can't cut plywood sheets with a hammer, you need a saw. But even then, a circular saw or a skill saw will cut the plywood, but a tablesaw would be a much better choice.

When trying to master... make sure you aren't trying to use a band saw to do the work someone else did with a table saw and then wonder how they were able to cut the lines so straight. ;-)

Different compressors, limiters and EQs work differently and impart a different character to the audio passing through them. Don't expect ONE type of each to do the job for you...and don't expect the same equipment to work on every piece of music you master. When I'm at some of these mastering studios watching them master my mixes, on one mix they might bypass ALL the analog equipment. On another they might only use an Alan Smart C2, on the third mix they might have a Manley VariMu, A Manley Slam, a Pultec EQ, a pair of LA3As, a Neve EQ, the Weiss EQ and Weiss compressor, and the L2 on the mix. On one mix they might use their Lavry converters, on the next mix they might use the converters in the SLAM, and on another they might use their Prism Converters... It's all about understanding the effects every piece of gear you have can impart on program material and knowing when to use what to get the desired end result.