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  #1  
Old 01-29-2000, 08:36 PM
juanpatino juanpatino is offline
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Default URGENT: Dual Monitors on 450MHz G4 = Error -6042:\"PCI bus too busy\" U R G E N T E!

Dear Esteemed Colleagues & fellow Pro Toolers of the Digidesign User Conference:

As I slowly go out of business, I realize that we've procrastinated launching this "-6042 THINK TANK" for exactly 23 days too long. One, Singular, Cohesive, Thread...that attempts to summarize & pinpoint EVERY -6042 symptom & anomaly that we have discovered over the last three weeks. Scavenging through everyone's 6042 posts has brought me some perverse pleasure in remembering that misery loves company. Now, we join hands...& roll-up our collective sleeve to brainstorm toward a future that knows no 6042.


T H E P R O B L E M:

As of this New Year's 450MHz SAWTOOTH G4/ PT5 upgrade.......in the presense of more than one Monitor (Apple's factory OEM'ed ATI Rage 128 Pro) Card, as I approach any track count in excess of 25 voices, DAE Error -6042 interrupts playback and or record with the much anticipated; "the pci bus is too busy."
Therefore, I can no longer run (3) 21" monitors. Nope, not even 2 monitors.

NO DUAL MONITORS ALLOWED, on songs that have more than 25 tracks!

YES. I have read & memorized all 73 User Conference Threads re: "-6042", "dual monitors" "pci bandwidth" etc.

YES. I have spent the last 3 weeks troubleshooting thru the following steps:
CHECKLIST for the elimination of error -6042.

a) throttled down the EPCI-DC Dual Channel ATTO card's synch transfer rate, via ATTO pci Express 2.2 Control Panel: down to 20 (10)

b) Deleted all ATI extensions including the ATI Driver Update

c) Reduced all Monitors to "256" Colors. Removed Desktop Photos from the Appearance Control Panel, & left a very simple pattern.

d) Deleted any other misc. graphics accelerator extensions & drivers

e) Set all system fonts to "Chicago."
Shut off Platinum Sounds

f) Disconnected & eliminated all 38gb of assorted Seagate external SCSI Hard Drives.

f.5) Verified that all cards PASSED via Digitest

f.6) Re-sized Mix Window and Edit Window on both monitors so that each is fully expanded & covering it's own screen. (and the desktop)

f.7) Made certain that DAE's Playback buffer is set to "2" Also experimented @ "4"

f.8) Apple's Memory Control Panel w/ Cache set to 512K , Virtual Memory off

h) Once floppily authorized, disconnected & eliminated Imation's Super Duper Disk.

i) struggled w/ Wave's dongle key & the "iMate USB to ADB adaptor" attached directly & only to the G4....not the 7 port ASANTÉ hub.

j) called my parents & told them that I have to move back in with them in NJ


T H E C O N F I G U R A T I O N :

- G4 450MHz (AGP Sawtooth Motherboard)

- PT 5.0 Mac OS 9 256 MB RAM

- "60mb Ram to Pro Tools" "90mb to DAE"

- Bit 3's Date of Freshness:
Digi approved 2/99....earlier 13 slot Chassis : Serial # 174650

Chassis Contains:
(1) Mix Core Card, (3) Mix FARMS, and (3) Vintage DSP farms (7 DIGI cards in total)

- 63gb combined Internal HD's
incl. (2) new digi approved - 18gb Seagate Cheetah ST318203LW

- (1) Digidesign 888 24 bit Interface

- (1) Apogee AD-8000 (Removed for this Troubleshooting)

- Plug-ins include Waves Gold Bundle 2.8.1, TC Tools, D2 D3 FilterBank, D-fx, D-Verb, Amp Farm, etc

- Fully Expanded 32 fader Pro Control


NOTE: So as to reduce variables; most troubleshooting has occurred sans Vintage DSP farms & sans Pro Control.


Zzzzzzzzz.......anyone still out there?


C A R D & S L O T O R D E R:

G4......starting from the top

- PCI Slot 1: Apple's Factory Shipped AGP ATI Rage 128 Pro Video Graphics Card

- PCI Slot 2: Bit 3's Host Adaptor Card (for 13 slot chassis)

- PCI Slot 3: Any assortment of ATI's XClaim VR Graphics card '98 and/or ATI's new 3dPLUS card(s).

- PCI Slot 4: Digi's only approved SCSI accelerator: the inferior ATTO Dual Channel EPCI

IN BIT 3 13 SLOT CHASSIS
Serial # 174650...starting from the power supply on the right side

- PCI Slot 0: Bit 3's Backplane Controller Card Adjacent to power supply

- PCI Slot 1 thru Slot 3: Remains empty @ DIGI's request

- PCI Slot 4: Mix Core Card
- PCI Slot 5: Mix Farm #1
- PCI Slot 6: Mix Farm #2
- PCI Slot 7: Mix Farm #3
- PCI Slot 8: Vintage QC Rev'd Farm (Removed for Troubleshooting)
- PCI Slot 9: Vintage QC Rev'd Farm (Removed for Troubleshooting)
- PCI Slot10:Vintage QC Rev'd Farm (Removed for Troubleshooting)

There is also a new ASANTÉ 7 port USB hub (now removed for Troubleshooting)


S A T U R D A Y N I G H T S U M M A R Y:

I've spoken to ATI Technologies' Ian Bradbury: Manager of Tech Supt Dept daily for 2.5 weeks (905) 882-2626. They admit to no known dual setup or triple monitor setup bugs, nor documented problems for G4'S w/ OS 9 & PT 5. UNFORTUNATELY, they absolutely, under no circumstances, have a dual monitor card in the works for the Mac platform. Incidentally, Digi Tech Support conducted an assorted Graphics Card test on the G4. They too discovered that the ix-Micro Dual Channel card....also suffered -6042 errors in songs containing over 25 tracks.

Also unfortunately, I've just bought ATI's newer Rage Orion 128 graphics card
No Improvement.
Still -6042: "The PCI bus is too busy"

I've also spoken to Apple's "Escalated Senior Tech Support" for 2.5 weeks. Their best response was that "the PCI architecture for the G4's sawtooth motherboard may have evolved such that our Pro Tools cards are stunned, or at least disrupted, by the G4's new architecture. Yes, yes, yes, I know & understand that it is the "Digisystem Init's" responsibility & burden to re-negotiate higher priority for our Digi cards during the computer's launch. (i.e. ...."the digisystem init reprograms the pci bridge chip during boot time....etc) somethin' like that?

I've spoken plenty to Dennis @ SBS Bit 3's Tech Support (651) 905-4700, and they have no further comment. Far as they're concerned, their company policy defaults to Digidesign's compatability doc......& since the 13 slot is listed, they're totally done with me.

Our studio is dependent on, was built around, and thrives on, this (3) monitor setup.
Up until PT5 hit our new G4, PRO TOOLS has been bulletproof on both the 9500 & the 9600 for a long, long time.
HELP...I'm losing interest in music and in making records. Anyone?
Hello?..anyone..does this thing pick up sound?


juan patiño (212) 262-1364
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2000, 07:18 AM
tomcat tomcat is offline
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Default Re: URGENT: Dual Monitors on 450MHz G4 = Error -6042:\"PCI bus too busy\" U R G E N T E!

oh juan, i feel your pain. i have been there, but not with a sawtooth. you have just completely convinced me not to upgrade. i am having some pci bus issues relating to video playback on my old power tower, so i thought the easy solution was to throw piles of cash at the rig and upgrade to the newest fastest coolest. i figured the high-speed pci bus would do away with any problems. reading your post, there is no way in hell i would change. i have tried the ix micro dual in my computer but it slows things down to the point of being unusable. my "workaround" is really to use my ears when adjusting plug-ins, and never look at the mixer view. if you have 32 faders of procontrol (i would love to see your studio!) i don't imagine you need to see the mix window. what do you do with three monitors? i know these are not the question you want to answer. you want protools to work and get the hell out of your way. me too. but don't let it kill you. i am not a quitter, but i know how protools problems can poison the entire music making experience. maybe you should consider either rethinking your need for multiple monitors, or bite the bullet and go back to your 9600 until digi gets it together. i am running a g3 400mhz maxpowr in my power tower pro, and it runs pretty well. pt 5 was basically inoperable before the upgrade card went in (though 4.3.1 flew along happily) my config: pt 5, os 8.6, 3940 scsi, fuse video, twin tubro monitor card, one mix card and two old farms. big sessions with 80 tracks/58 voices, and digital video. i am sqeaking by with no expansion chassis, so far, but i need to manage dsp pretty carefully. channel strip helps cut down on dsp requirements.

good luck.

tom

[This message has been edited by tomcat (edited January 30, 2000).]
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2000, 03:25 PM
JLC JLC is offline
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Default Re: URGENT: Dual Monitors on 450MHz G4 = Error -6042:\"PCI bus too busy\" U R G E N T E!

Dear Juan, (to whom it may concern in digidesign).

Probably you have done all this things, but I had a similar problem with an G3 (450 MHz). Forget about using more than one monitor, and remove all the monitor cards, except the AGP (in this case). I don't undersatand why you have to leave the second PCI bus in the chasis free. Forget about that. Try the Adaptec SCSI card (10MB/s). If you make numbers you will discover that 10MB/s is enough to work with 64 tracks (24 bits, 48KHz=>exactly 9,216 MB/s) you have to leave as much free Bandw. as possible to comunicate with the chasis and cards.Try to make a very simple configuration of the system (folder) avoid all the extensions you don't need. The system we had the problem is working very good. We have no more than one 6402 per week. If you use Norton speed disk use the CD-ROM setting, it makes the files easier to acces. My system is based on a 9500 with no SCSI card just the internal port connected to four Cheetah 9 Gbytes hard disks. I remove the CD player from the computer. I have been working with projects up to 56 tracks (24 bits). Of course just one monitor.
I know G4 will avoid a lot off problems when protools support IDE drives (cheaper up to 66 MB/s, internal=>more PCI Bandw.) or firewire when we have faster enough drives (and no adapted ones).
Digidesign please:
-When 48 bit bus (TDM II)?
-When 96 KHz?
-Why don´t you improve the mixer plug in (24 bit)?
-Why don´t you make all plug ins work with 48 bit resolution?
-Why don't you give full technical info. about your plugs?

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  #4  
Old 01-30-2000, 08:13 PM
creaturestudios creaturestudios is offline
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Default Re: URGENT: Dual Monitors on 450MHz G4 = Error -6042:\"PCI bus too busy\" U R G E N T E!

As far as I have heard, this is a issue to take up with apple. The pci buss, regardless of what people may think, is not bulletproof. I have been told that their are software workarounds, which are probably happening as we speak, but don't expect the world to be remade overnight. If you have three monitors, and an expansion chassis, you expect this not to affect the pci buss? I'm ****** that there are no dual agp cards out their. This is a market I am sure can be justified. Why don't we make an effort to show these manufacturers what they should be doing for us! Call and email your video card manufacturer of choice and hound them until they bleed!! This is the solution we are waiting for. I want something that works. I'm not going to risk my audio quality and stability by overtaxing my pci slots.

Think about it, then do it.
Creature
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2000, 08:48 PM
cinecity cinecity is offline
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Default Re: URGENT: Dual Monitors on 450MHz G4 = Error -6042:\"PCI bus too busy\" U R G E N T E!

Dear Juan
The ONLY ONLY WAY you can get from under this very frustrating problem is to strip your setup completely.
First of all take a deep breath and surrender to it! I mean it. It is the only way around this thing. And follow my advice completely. It will work. Forget about 3 MONITORS. At least for now.

1. Use only the one monitor AGP card and the ATTO card . Dont put anything else in your PCI buss except of course your Bit3 chassis card. DOnt even hoop up Pro Control yet.
2. Run this system for a couple of days.
You will probably find fo errors at all.
3. Now, put up another monitor. Run this system for awhile. If it gives you problems then change the PCI slot the card is in and/or change to the other video card.
If all goes well proceed to the next step.
4. Add the Procontrol. See how the system behaves for a couple of days.
5. If all goes well. Then Thank your lucky stars and stay with it. If you can get the system to work with two monitors then GOOD LUCK!!!

We feel for your pain guy!

Ray
Cinecity
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  #6  
Old 01-30-2000, 11:05 PM
uno1234 uno1234 is offline
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Default Re: URGENT: Dual Monitors on 450MHz G4 = Error -6042:\"PCI bus too busy\" U R G E N T E!

I have nothing useful to offer beyond what these fine folks have said.

All I have to say is-- DAMN.

what a setup.
I hope you get it working.
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2000, 06:03 AM
AdamFrick AdamFrick is offline
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Default Re: URGENT: Dual Monitors on 450MHz G4 = Error -6042:\"PCI bus too busy\" U R G E N T E!

juan -

I'm on a b&w g3, had lots and lots of 6042 problems when adding my bit 3 and trying to do 3 monitors. fwiw, I am using the dual ixmicro card, and until it totally kills me, I am doing with a max of 25 voices (which works for now).

My one piece of advice which you may have already tried is to swap the scsi and monitor cards, elevating the scsi to a higher priority.

Good luck, and let this be our -6042 think tank to get this resolved. Thanks for starting the ball and for the great details.

-adam
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  #8  
Old 01-31-2000, 10:44 AM
juanpatino juanpatino is offline
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Default Re: URGENT: Dual Monitors on 450MHz G4 = Error -6042:\"PCI bus too busy\" U R G E N T E!

OUTSTANDING!
Wow! Now this is what I call teamwork!

This post is only 36 hours old, & already I feel 10 years younger. Mmmmmm....Synergy.
So, indulge me further as I thank each of you, one at a time.


First contestant. TOMCAT writes:
"juan, i feel your pain.....i thought the easy solution was to throw piles of cash at the rig and upgrade to the newest fastest coolest.

Dear TOMCAT:
Me Too. Obviously, I thought the same thing. Whoopsie. But TOMCAT, don't let me derail your upgrading to a G4. It really is a wicked machine. Unfortunately, the only thing I've done successfully with it is open Simple Text at lightning speeds....
Just kidding of course, I've had some impressive Pro Tooling & Photoshop from it as well. Some of the 8 - 16 track songs open as if someone had thrown a light switch on. Just NO DUAL MONITORS @ PT5. Simply, resist the temptation if you need to run two monitors on sessions in excess of 25 tracks.

TOMCAT also asked. "what do you do with three monitors?"

Well, the 3rd monitor has always been dedicated to all plug-ins @ 640x480. It's handy because you never have to look around or shuffle windows for it; no opening and closing the plug-ins window. It's addictive. The PT environment becomes this big, expansive field with tons 'o on-screen real estate....wherein assorted windows & tools always have their own fixed location.

TOMCAT also wrote:
you want protools to work and get the hell out of your way. me too. but don't let it kill you.....i know how protools problems can poison the entire music making experience.

Yes Sir TOMCAT:
I am well versed in the struggle for balance between songwriting, Record Producing, and Troubleshooting Pro Tools. There is something very peaceful about watching Pro Tools purr along as the rest of band is playing their hearts out and SUITS sip on Cappucino's and pet their cellphones. Pro Tools has been extraordinary here for 5 years. This is my first real snag.
(Insert some cliché about "the bleeding edge" HERE)

TOMCAT also suggested I consider sadly re-downgrading to the 9500 or the 9600 where I was once stable & tri-monitored.

Uhhhhhh, but Mom.....Unfortunately, I did a grocery cart full of peripheral upgrades/purchases as well as stuffing an additional 36gb of Cheetah SCSI internally. That, plus the new ATTO dual channel card, & way too many graphics cards that I've bought & tested, has made me obssessive & dangerous.

I have plenty to add the other 5 generous replies we've collected. Lemme get a Turkey w/ cheddar & Russian Dressing down and I'll be back with more.

Now a word from our sponsor.........

Love, juan
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  #9  
Old 01-31-2000, 03:30 PM
Arno Peeters's Avatar
Arno Peeters Arno Peeters is offline
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Default Re: URGENT: Dual Monitors on 450MHz G4 = Error -6042:\"PCI bus too busy\" U R G E N T E!

I'm glad the -6042 issue is adressed again guys: I'm not out here for the multiple monitor setup, but to find out when I can safely use a videocard on a G4 w. 001 (same problem all over).
I haven't found any succestories with videocards yet, at least not with the 001: Digi has not approved ANY card yet to work with 001 and are still testing the DC30(+) and the Aurora Fuse, but still no answer...

When will Apple (or Digi's DAE) be able to get past this 'PCI-Bridge Reprogramming-Bug' ?

Digi: whazzup ?
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2000, 05:52 PM
shawnosimpson shawnosimpson is offline
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Default Re: URGENT: Dual Monitors on 450MHz G4 = Error -6042:\"PCI bus too busy\" U R G E N T E!

Hi Juan,
We haven't completely cracked this riddle ourselves. We're only running 2 monitors, but we found by reducing both monitors to 256 colors, we were able to make everything function for a normal session. Also, when you're doing anything that requires just a little more bandwidth (recording, bouncing to disk, scrolling, etc.), take any plugins off the screen. The third party developers and even digi's plugins are written to have these marvelous displays, but they require a lot of graphics. If you take them off the screen, that will leave only your fader movements, edit and mix meters, and counters to take up graphics. Also, I've been told that the only ATI card to use is called the "orion" with 16-32 megs of ram. I haven't tried, but eventually I will. My digi rep has mentioned the old standard card that came in the 9600 as an alternative too. Apparently, it's a pretty base model card with no frills, but who needs frills anyway when you have to run at lowest res anyway??? I also read an earlier reply about the cinema display, but I think that would only apply to the people with the new g4's with the dvi connection. Otherwise, you have to add a card with that port which may cause the same problems. Ya'll keep the dialog up, this is how problems get solved.
--Shawn
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