Sampling Rounding Bug and Workarounds - Pro Tools 2020.3

[take77]

I also discovered that Bandlab is providing Cakewalk for free.
I started out on Sonar and they were ahead of the game with 64bit. It's only available for Windows for those interested.
Anyway, I'm just sharing a link for those who need an alternate DAW for MIDI work on Windows.
https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk

[spinsong]

The problem you’re describing has to do with different timelines. Especially if you have some quantise per measure initiated. The work around would be to add some blank time first then snapping to grid. The misalignment is not a bug. Also, further up in the timeline would technically snap to a different grid because the spacing can’t be exact.


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[foxes]

Originally Posted by spinsong

The problem you’re describing has to do with different timelines. Especially if you have some quantise per measure initiated. The work around would be to add some blank time first then snapping to grid. The misalignment is not a bug. Also, further up in the timeline would technically snap to a different grid because the spacing can’t be exact.


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Totally disagree, NO OTHER DAW suffers from this issue. And it was not present in PT 10 & 11.

[take77]

Here's an example of the most common issue I'm having even in 2020.11 on Windows 10:

I have a MIDI clip of a bass line or drum part that I simply want to copy and paste to another section of the song.

Not every time but quite often, the notes within the copied clip are shifted out of line with the grid by approx 1/128th.
Sometimes just half of the clip is altered with the rest intact.

I then have to manually readjust the notes to re-align with the grid or quantize the clip after each copy.
There are varying tempos across the song timeline but it should copy to the grid accurately since the section I'm copying to & from is the same tempo.
It seems to occur more if there is a variance of tempo between the two sections.

Two things I will do from now on is: Arrange at one tempo and fine tune tempos later. But that's really inconvenient when I already know the best tempos for each section.
Second, I'll do all my duplications first and then just quantize everything when I'm done.

But here's the major problem: If I have clips with a human feel that get altered, I wouldn't have a clue how to readjust the clips back to the original human feel since a human feel is a bit off visually in the first place.
Hence my post about using a DAW on the side that I know isn't altering MIDI patterns.
So that I can QUICKLY and confidently duplicate my MIDI instrument sections. (SSD5 drums & Trilian Bass...rockin'…)

This is a major issue to not be able to carry out the most basic task of music production.
I went to duplicate ONE single clip the other day and Pro Tools couldn't do it.
I had to stop & readjust a simple 4 bar quantized bassline to put it back in order.

I also want to add, that it happens more with self made MIDI patterns than with 3rd party MIDI clips from say my drum library.
But most of my drum library clips have a nice human feel and I don't want those to get altered when simply duplicating a section to a different point in the timeline.
Maybe notes that are a bit off the grid aren't affected as much? I hoper that could be the reason my drum library clips seemingly duplicate without issue.

Lastly, I understand some of the rebuttals since this thread has been labeled Sample rounding issue and what I'm experiencing is a MIDI tick alignment issue.

[spinsong]

It doesn’t make sense. Why would a bug be introduced through a rewrite. Did you try the latest version.


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[take77]

I'm currently using 2020.11 on Windows.
From what I've read, it's been happening with MIDI since PT12.
I just started doing MIDI work again in 2019 and that's when I finally noticed.

I guess before PT12 the issue was more notable with audio/sample mode.
Now it's the other way around.

I've also had another person confirm my issue of cut/insert time causing MIDI notes to shift also.
Even at one even tempo.
My most recent session is doing fine in this regard. But went to copy and paste a bass line the other day and...

[samhunt2]

Has anyone compiled more tempos that work at different sample rates? I'm looking for tempos that will work at 48kHz. If not I might find some time to make a list.

[Evermore]

Hey Guys,

Been a while since I've looked at Pro Tools. Just curious, has any checked the latest PT 2021.6 update to see if there have been any improvements on this bug/s?

PT 2021.6 has some nice improvements like Automatic Delay Comprensation and M1 compatibility which required some tweaking to accommodate the new hybrid engine. Just wondering if these tweaks possibly fixed this rounding issue. Wishful thinking!

[take77]

Unfortunately, the release notes make no specific mention of there being a fix.

This is a bummer because it turns out that the issue also occurs when dragging & dropping a 4 bar drum loop from third party pattern libraries onto the timeline.

I use Toontrack EZplayer Pro to house all my drum pattern libraries.
When I select a 4 bar pattern, the green PT bar length indicator reads 4 bars and 32 samples after dropping onto the timeline.
I zoom in to inspect and half of the pattern has been shifted by that much.

The song is multiple tempos but the particular part of the song is 120BPM (44.1kHz). The most common tempo & sample rate.

So I have to correct a large percentage of pattern drops now also.
At multiple tempos anyway.
Fun.

[Evermore]

Ok, thanks for the update. This is a major issue under-looked bug that needs attention. I really like this new update PT 2021.6 and what they unlock. I would not need to pay for Ultimate anymore but even at $199 a year for standard PT it's still a NO for me until this is fixed. I'm super happy with my current DAW.