AM radio sound and that elusive "POCKET" sound...

[Mark Staples]

I am fairly new to this whole thing of engineering in a studio. I've mixed for live shows and am pretty good with that, but this is a WHOLE NEW AREA. I've read and studied and LISTENED and even recently purchased GOLDEN EARS to help train my ears, but it's been a stuggle getting the sound I'm wanting.

Here's my problem, I have been struggling with getting a good sound that doesn't sound like AM radio. I know that it's partly/mostly an EQ issue, but I'm not convinced that this may also be a tracking issue as well - sub-par gear.

I've recorded vocals using an AKG Solidtube mic through the Digi 001 preamp (after reading through the discussion groups lately, this appears to not be a good idea). The vocalist is a female that has a very powerful voice that sings POP and inspirational style music, something between a LeAnn Rimes and Barbara Streisand.

I know that without HEARING some of the recordings, it will be difficult to provide a good answer, but what I'm looking for is...

1) Is it possible to get that silky sound using Pro Tools LE?

2) If so, then did I screw up by using the DIGI 001 preamp? Is there something that I can do to fix it? I tried running them through the Behringer Tube Ultragain and was able to "soften" them up a bit.

3) Regarding that AM sound, any recommendations and some direction for EQing? This is a dumb question, but I figure I'd throw it out there and see if someone has some tips.

Monitors are Mackie HR824s in my basement. The basement is fully carpeted and ceiling has R-13 insulation stapled to the joists covered with plastic (needing more money to put in acoustical tile). The room is 12X20 and NOTHING seems to sound the same as what I hear on the speakers after a trial mixdown, bouncing to disk and burning to CD.

I've recorded most everything at 48K/24-bit. Some somgs were recorded at 44.1K/24-bit.

I have the Waves Platinum - Native and T-Racks stand alone mastering.

Thanks for the help. Any advice for this NOVICE is appreciated. Right now I feel like an incompetent idiot.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[gavinchan]

Wow, that's a really broad question man, you might have to be more specific to get some practical help to your problem. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Maybe something like: Tips for tuning my room? What's the best way to track female vocals? Who here has had good experience with PreAmp XYZ?

[gabriel_p]

I feel your pain Mark, to answer some of you questions:
1- Yes you can get that airy feeling on LE, try boosting at 5k,10k and 16k (depending on the voice).

2- 001 pres are not bad, they are just what they are a GREAT deal!...to hear an improvement you have to buy pres AT or ABOVE the 1K range.(subject to discussion).

3-For the telephone effect you can do as a regular phone does...just take out lows and highs (I've aldo had good results with bumps around 3K, experiment). leave the meat of the voice 700-3k or so untouched. I'm no expert but just trying to help. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Mark Staples]

Yeah, I know that it's a broad question. So, I'll just have to deal with it.

What I'm TRYING to do is get RID of the AM sound. I'm going to have to keep at it until I get it right. Fortunately, I'm not paying for studio time. However, my client would like the project out some time in the next couple weeks.

Thanks again...

[doorknocker]

I might be completely wrong, but since your experience lies with live mixing, perhaps you're relying too much on a 'live sound mentality'.
What I mean is that live sound (even when well done) deals with brutally sharp midrange frequencies, (think of those guitarists and drummers [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ) ....I would try to analyze as many recordings as possible, often you'll find the individual sounds to be much smaller and thinner than what you'll hear live... Often, I find it necessary to cut out midrange quite drasticaly, for example the 100-200k range on acoustic guitars is a constant source of boominess. Also, try the 'ying-yang' method, boost say 2.5k on the kick to get a nice attack and cut the same frequency on the bass, always cut more than you boost.
The Digirack EQs are fine and more than o.k at first. After I've got a basic understanding of EQ I invested in the McDSP Filterbank, a great EQ but again...don't dwell too much on equipment, especially when you're starting out.....

Good luck

Andi

[Mark Staples]

Thank you Mark!

[DesertDude]

This will sound non tecnical. Take away what sounds ugly, and let the nice part of the vocal shine through. Try not to boost frequencies that are not inherent in the voice. If you want an open sound think "open"...
-->Good Mic, nice compressor, limited Eq <--

Takes some time to experiment, with out the pressure of recording/tracking/timeclock [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[kenhawkins]

ummm maybe i missed it but i have the native Waves gold pack and under one of the eq's is an AM radio setting. sorry i can't be of more help but i am at work not in front of the machine. (insert sadness and anger here_)

ken;

[lwilliam]

Try using the PAZ frequency analyzer in the Gold bundle and compare your frequency response to that of something that DOESN'T sound like AM radio to you. You'll probably find your bass response is lacking and the midrange is way boosted. Maybe you're also over-compressing...without hearing it, these are just guesses...

[shaggy]

Have you listened to the 'Emmy Lou Harris' album produced by Lanois?

I worked with a drummer who was doing sessions down in his New Orleans pad and here's the deal...

He was using an old two inch machine with a Neve desk, with Dolby C- I think...(not SR)

What you'll notice about that whole album, is that the highs are cut everywhere, except voice.

Seriously, check it out. And everything is clothed in a velvety 480 reverb...except her voice. The whole thing is one effect. But it creates a nitch for the voice...(you don't need as much level, but it works. One engineer I know got a little annoyed with the effect, but he's a analogue purist with awesome old gear)

One of the problems I've noticed with the TLM 103s, or even the newer AKGs is the clarity. It's almost a fault. Older U47s (telefunken) that I'm recollecting seem to have a lot less midrange and high-end. Whether it's the years of crude mucking up the diagphram or what...but nobody dares touch it. When you hear Natalie Merchant's recordings- it's this older U47 they're using, and not the Telefunken Elam. Sybillance is never an issue, but I suspect you encountered it. The TLM 103 is also sensitive in that regard and also bright IMHO

Believe it or not, an RE-20 can really get that silky sound...with a good pre.

The 001 mic pre adds to the dilema (it's bright) I haven't worked with the solidtube, but I hear it likes a hot vocal signal (it's my buddies fav mic down in LalaLand- but that's a male voice...and they use an API pre, not the Amek desk which is available- then go into Nuendo.)

I'd buy the Emmy Lou Harris record and have a good listen. It's the one with Neil's song 'Wishing Well' (see footnote). And a great album to have around.

Since you're not retracking---just mixing now...look into the little RNC compressor and try to pick up a $75 (used) type 1 Aural Exciter and maybe a new Joe Meekalizer (or get the new Joe Meek Twin, even a BBE can work wonders on the submix, after the eq.

I would attempt routing a submix through one signal chain of analogue gear, and the voice through the another using the auxs.

The Joe Meek twin can do double duty, as it's dual mono and stereo---when you track in the future, you can 'change' impedance at the mic input, which will allow for a lot of subtle enhancements...with the twist of a dial. Even old B_K ribbon mics. I'd also check out a Sony reverb unit (which won't cost too much) The twin has the same compressor as the SC-2 and has inserts up the wazoo.

...and also look at the API pre, which these Hollywood guys have chosen over the whole stinkin heap available to em...

But don't try to do it all digital IMO.

If you really want to drop the wad, check out the Martin Audio MSS-1 preamp. But the Meek may be more bang for the buck (VC-1cs twin)...but you can rent the MSS-1. So that's a handy alternative.

- http://www.martinsound.com/pd_mss.html
- http://www.joemeek.com/

.02 fleas

(dangit, don't listen to me, but I'd patch the heck out've it)

** 'Wrecking Ball' by Young