Master Fader is Clipping, what now?

[JSR]

I think the important thing to keep in mind here is if you're clipping your master fader, there is probably something going astray with your gain staging. So many don't pay attention to proper gain staging these days, and I feel it is more important in the digital world then the analog world. Pulling down a master fader when clipping always seemed like a band-aid fix for me for a real problem that was going in a mix. Whenever this happens, you should use it as an alert like "man, I must have not been paying attention to something" and then fix it; I think all and all you'll end up with a better mix.

[kurt]

Switch to Pre-Fader metering & watch your actual levels. Can you see reed? For now you could use, as last insert, Trim or Time Adjuster with minus16 or 20 db on all audio tracks.

As suggested by many before, turn monitor level 12, 16, or 20db up & preamps accordingly down.

It’s better to stay at minus thru recording & mixing stage & put back the remaining 12db´s with an analog device or let a mastering engineer do that.

Read Bob Katz theories about monitoring levels & how to get there.

Good Luck.

/kurt

[mixx]

it's a little more complicated than just pulling all faders down

faders that are "subbed to an aux from the i/o section [like drums that get sent to an stereo aux and compressed as a group] should not be lowered only the aux sub return should be lowered

aux's that are fed from the send section whose send faders are set to post fader [like a typical reverb or fx return set up] should not be lowered [the input to them is automatically lowered when the tracks that have the post send feeds to it are lowered]

[Matt_G]

So much confusion in this thread...

Aux faders are post inserts so pulling them down will not affect the input level that the first plug-in insert is seeing. Only Master faders have the ability to do this as they operate pre insert so pulling down the master fader will reduce the signal level that feeds the first plug-in insert.

So if you're sub mixing in Pro Tools HD to an Auxiliary Channel WATCH YOUR LEVELS! It will clip if it exceeds 0.0dbfs & you will need to pull down all the channel faders that are feeding it to prevent this distortion & you'll likely need to re-adjust your compressor thresholds to arrive at the same gain reduction.

Not so in Pro Tools LE, which allows an extra 48db of headroom which may not distort even with RTAS plug-ins inserted because it's 32bit floating point.

Matt

[Scott Goldberg]

I think the most useful thing that I've seen posted do far is to bring Aux send levels dow if possible and create some headroom. That would also go for any tracks that aren't going to an aux bus. the Trim took, for me, has been very helpful. I go to an outboard mastering EQ before I do my final bounces and it overloads all the time. If I put in the trim too on my outboard EQ track, I can trim it back some and then the music doesn't suffer. Hope this is a doable process for you. Not sure if it's the best way but others can chime in and refute my suggestion.

[jayprotools]

Quick question(s) for the pros....

Im mixing completely in the box on a PT HD2 on a G5 Dual 2.0Ghz.

My master fader is peaking at -1.2 (no clipping) according to the Peak Indicator under the Master Fader with no mastering plugs on except DaD Tape (RTAS).
The average peak is between -7.1 to .3.0 thorough out the track.

Is this good or bad practice?
i.e. is there enough headroom etc. for the Mastering engineer to work with the mix??



My mix has 5 Stem VCA faders which control the whole 96 Voice mix (electronic house track).

broken down to:
-Drums
-Synths & Bass
-Vocals with FX (delays, verbs etc)
-Sound FX/ Noises
-Return/Send FX

Some of my VCA faders are clipping Red, it sounds fine, but does it matter if VCA clip?

Finally (im sure there will be more), if i need more headroom, is it ok to just turn the VCA faders down or is it better to turn down the group/tracks level going to the VCA?


Any advice is appreciated.

cheers
Jay

[uno1234]

This is a very misunderstood aspect of Pro Tools mixing.

Matt is right-- the master fader acts the same as pulling down all the faders going to the master fader's buss.

One thing to add. Watch out for the inserts on the master fader. While the master fader lowers the level pre-insert, the meter on the master fader shows post insert level, so you can actually be peaking the master fader's buss dramatically, but by lowering the output of plugin inserts on the master fader channel, the master fader will not indicate any peaking. This is a very poor design in the pro tools mixer, and something that has burned me before.

Now that plugins show peaking in the mixer view, this is easier to catch, but it is still very dangerous.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by uno1234

This is a very misunderstood aspect of Pro Tools mixing.

Matt is right-- the master fader acts the same as pulling down all the faders going to the master fader's buss.

One thing to add. Watch out for the inserts on the master fader. While the master fader lowers the level pre-insert, the meter on the master fader shows post insert level, so you can actually be peaking the master fader's buss dramatically, but by lowering the output of plugin inserts on the master fader channel, the master fader will not indicate any peaking. This is a very poor design in the pro tools mixer, and something that has burned me before.

Now that plugins show peaking in the mixer view, this is easier to catch, but it is still very dangerous.

That's why I always put Masseys free Meter plugin as the first Insert on the Master Fader. The compressors afterwards don't tell the whole story.

I usually bring down all the individual faders. I leave the auxes alone unless they have compressors on them.

[el Daniel]

Originally Posted by Matt_G

So if you're sub mixing in Pro Tools HD to an Auxiliary Channel WATCH YOUR LEVELS! It will clip if it exceeds 0.0dbfs & you will need to pull down all the channel faders that are feeding it to prevent this distortion

You don't need to pull down all the channel faders, you can just create a master fader for the bus feeding the aux input and pull down this master fader. You can create a master fader for every point where clipping can happen.

Daniel.

[scottgreiner]

Originally Posted by el Daniel

You don't need to pull down all the channel faders, you can just create a master fader for the bus feeding the aux input and pull down this master fader. You can create a master fader for every point where clipping can happen.

Daniel.

Exactly.

Think of master faders as pre fader trims with meters for whatever they're assigned to, be it outputs or subgroups.