heavy guitars...i want em..

[chronicmd]

basically, i'm having difficulty making my dirty guitar tracks thick and heavy. i don't want to lose clarity as far as hearing all of the notes is concerned, but i want depth. i don't know how many of you are into hardcore, but the new Norma Jean record is the epitomy of what i'm trying to achieve. the guitars sound amazing.

here's what i'm working with.

mesa boogie trip. rect.
mesa cab
custom 22 prs and a really old gibson sg

if anyone has any advice as to how i can use what i have to get good quality heavy guitars, i'd really appreciate it alot! also, i'm looking into trying out some new heads and cabs just for heavy stuff. what combinations should i try as far as makes and models are concerned.

and, for what its worth, if anyone here happens to know, or has heard the norma jean record, and knows what was used guitar wise on it...that'd be killer.

thanks so much to anyone who can help!
jason

[finalcut]

Want a heavy guitar sound - layers, layers, layers.
Mic up your rig, and lay down multiple tracks of the rhythms that you want. Try different EQ settings on different tracks, as well as different mic positions... That way your tracks will all have a slightly different sound all their own. Then mix these tracks in the stereo field to taste. If your playing metal - keep your stuff machine gun tight.
Another thing to keep in mind is to not over saturate an individual track with loads of gain. Dial up a real crunchy, yet clear sound. That way when all of the tracks are mixed together you will get loads of grind, but your guitars will be clear with a good punchy attack - if you play good & tight.
Lots of pro's will double, triple, or even quadruple their rhythms to get a thick, heavy sound.
That's the way to do it. Have fun.

[PRS4LIFE]

Hey man I've got a prs custom22 too! rock on...anyway, do just what finalcut said. LAYERS LAYERS LAYERS. Also try panning. Take 2 mono tracks, dedicate one to the left and one to the right. Then record your stuff on the left, and then record your stuff on the right(DONT RECORD ONE COPY AND PASTE TO THE OTHER, WONT WORK). Doing that helps ALOT on a full sound. Hope this helps, take care man!

[BradLyons]

It sounds like you've got a great guitar rig, but getting that killer sound revolves around other parts. I've been doing progressive and hard rock (okay 80's metal band! haha) for years. What microphone are you using? Yes, the SM57 will work but there is nothing like using a Royer R121 or even a Soundelux U195. NO, these are not cheap microphones but if you're looking for that killer guitar tone.....this will do it and it's what the pros are using. What are you using for your preamp, just what is on the Digi? This is another part you need to look into ala the front-end of your signal. Okay, gear aside.... it also comes down to EQ, this can certainly be accomplished with high quality plugins such as the Waves Rennaissance EQ.

A trick to use that I've been doing for years is to hard-pan the guitar track one direction and route it to an Aux hard-panned the oppossite direction with a very short delay. On top of this, I like to detune the guitar either via a plugin or an outboard processor (I used to use an Eventide for this) to "stretch" the guitar tone a little. The end result was a FAT wide sound that had sparkle and clearity with a lot of chug.

[GORILLA]

Hey Brad, been taking my Line6 Pod Pro analog out into the Trident and thru the PSX-100 for some SLAMMIN' Killer [direct]metal guitar sounds! Using a Gibson Goth V' & Renn EQ with a small dose of Analog channel!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Couldn't be happier!!

[Chris Scott]

You have the gear, i play through a triple rec. and I have a Gibson Les paul and all I do is layer the sh&* out of it and it comes out great. Mic techniques will definately work. Wherever the amp sounds the best to your ears put a mic there as well...BE CREATIVE & you shall be happy...

[mjames08]

make sure you are hard panning each different track..

[angeldustone]

What kind of guitar are you using man?

Some people are not going to agree with this advice because of the hype and popularity of the Mesa Triple and Dual Rectifier amps, but when used for recording a heavy and dry track I find the high gain settings on those amps to be extremely thin sounding. No matter what I did I could not squeeze a warm sound out of that amp. I owned a Triple and never once was I happy with that amp going doen to either ADAT or hard-disc. I will say that I am a tone freak.

After being frustrated one night in the studio going to ADAT, my friend urged me to A/B my Mesa Triple with his old beat up Peavy 5150 I (500$ amp.) I was using a 1976 Les Paul Standard by the way. I laughed because I always found the 5150 to be a hunk of garbage. I ended up using the Peavy 5150 for the entire record and then sold my Mesa. The truth is when I A/B'd them without knowing which track he was playing back through the monitors and phones the Peavy sounded way thicker and warmer on every mic setting we tried. I am now playing a KOCH Multitone (best amp I have ever owned.) www.Koch-amps.com

My advice: Try the 5150 and back of the gain big time. Something about the way these amps are wired make them nice to record with. Try a couple of different settings with the 5150 for dirty sounds only. Then compare them to what you have. If you have friends who play hardcore or metal, chances are someone has a 5150 they could lend you. I

f you insist on playing Mesa check out some of the older pre Dual/Triple rectifier amps like the Mark IV. They are much warmer. A JCM 900 is also a good amp to layer tracks with. I cant even tell you how many great records have been recorded with JCM 800's and 900's. You don't need ridiculous amounts of gain to make thick tracks, you just need warmth and the some EQ in the right places.

[Captain_Pants]

hehe, you know what I use for thick tracks? Acoustic guitar through the distortion. I have an ovation thin body that produces just the thickness I like. You can check it out on my mp3.com page if you want. The particular song I am reffering to is called, "What this did to me". All guitars are acoustic on that whole song.
=-CP

www.mp3.com/agenda_entropy

[chronicmd]

funny you mention the 5150...

i've got alot of friends that are in hardcore bands that are obsessed w/ 5150 head/mesa cab combo. that was actually something i was going to try. i don't care about what i record on, so long as it sounds good..
i'm using a prs custom 22 right now...i've got an older gibson sg, but i've found that it pops and cracks alot. probably some faulty wiring or something...its not too noticible, but its enough to bother me.

thanks for the advice!

jason