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#41
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Re: Undipped music stem
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Last edited by dalonso66; 07-16-2014 at 08:30 AM. |
#42
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Re: Undipped music stem
Even doing it that way still requires some careful reworking or counter-dipping of the DME dipper, but yes, I get it.
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#43
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Re: Undipped music stem
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We are currently having this discussion at work, with regard to the extra time required to mix a flat music/fx then dip that under dial, then make sure that the integrity of that mix is kept when making changes and tweaks further down the line (or if the mix is under time constraints, mix as normal and run through and 'undip' after final client review). I know it depends a lot on the individual project, but has there been any thought to how much extra work this is and whether it is justifiable to make the client aware and pass on the cost? The way I see it, to be of any use to facilities that inherit these stems for reversioning, the stems have to be 'mixed' and not just flat prefader level, otherwise fx/atmos etc won't be at appropriate relative levels and music crossovers wont work. So it can't be just an automatic process, there has to be thought and attention paid to it. |
#44
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Re: Undipped music stem
Yes, The M&E mix retains it's relative balance. I spoke to a former mixer at Discovery and this was his reply:
"The way we set this up internally at Discovery, and how they continue to do it is like this: Music is leveled on the music tracks (-24ish), but not mixed on the music tracks. All music mixing is on the music & dip busses. Narration Bus feeds Full Mix Dialog Bus feeds Dip Bus FX Bus feeds Dip Bus Music Bus feeds Dip Bus Dip Bus feeds Full Mix So, anytime you're mixing against dialog only, you'll be mixing your FX & Music on the FX & Music bus. When VO comes in, the FX and Music busses go to unity and then you pull the Dip bus down under VO. They send a pre-fader from the Dip bus to create the MDE. This allows for everything to happen in a single pass." |
#45
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Re: Undipped music stem
really struggling on the rationale in this one! its the first time in 20 years I ever been asked to mix sync sound and VO together in mono - and they dot want seperate either?!!
this is a history channel spec sheet I just got given... Channel 1 Full Mix; Stereo Left Channel 2 Full Mix; Stereo Right Channel 3 M&E; Stereo Left (no dialogue, no VO/narration) Channel 4 M&E; Stereo Right (no dialogue, no VO/narration) channel 5 VO/Narration and interview/location dialogues; channel 6 Mono Effects and Ambience/B-roll Audio; Mono channel 7 Stereo Music & Effects & Dialogue Left (no VO/narration) Channel 8 Stereo Music & Effects & Dialogue Right (no VO/narration) channel 9 Stereo Music Left (undipped with clean fades) channel 10 Stereo Music Right (undipped with clean fades) if I got sent this to reversion - I think I would be upset! The M+E is basically useless? not an effect driven show,, and they want nat sound mixed with the VO? I guess ch 7/8 is that one ? actually the few SFX that are in - are stereo.. way prefer have 3 seperate D M E to do a reversion.. of course the spec sheet didnt appear til after I had basically mixed the show..
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2018 i7 3.6 GHz 6 core mac mini running monterey 12.6.2 - 32Gig RAM 512 Gb SSD drive Focusrite Saffire PRO 40 Ultimate 2022 10 / HD Avid MC Mix / MC Control |
#46
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Re: Undipped music stem
Try making an undipped, when your music comes from the offline video editor with cut clip/crossfade at cut/clip gain down under dialogue.
Its a Media Composer way of dipping music. I actually use that as a starting reference, as the EP has approved the rough music level. So my dips are minimal, and mostly board fades between music cuts.
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#47
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Re: Undipped music stem
But you are still providing a dipped music stem if you do that. Having said that, I think this undipped music stem is sheer nonsense and comes from a complete lack of understanding of how people reversion.
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cheers Mike Aiton BSc (hons) Audio Consultant, Dubbing Mixer/Sound Designer & Journalist BAFTA member IPS member ---------------------------------------------------------------------- www.mikerophonics.com |
#48
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Re: Undipped music stem
No Im not!!
I do know about reversioning. When I used a board, it was easy!! I now mix with an AAF that starts this way. I was saying "try making one from that" I have to manually go in and restore all the clip gain drops to the nominal levels then remove automation added to that area. For a reality show that will NEVER go international. OFF TOPIC: On top of mixing -24 +- 1, with a short term loudness of +-4 With a peak of -10.
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IMDB Last edited by TVPostSound; 10-11-2015 at 01:18 PM. |
#49
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Re: Undipped music stem
This thread has been dead for a while but I’m about to bring it back to life with THE dumbest delivery requirement to date. Delivering a 22 minute show that contains an on camera host with on camera dialog. The other parts of the show are animated with character dialog as well as host VO over some dialog.
The network specifically requested we treat the on camera host dialog as VO and thus deliver an undipped mix minus VO and an undipped music stem and fx stem. They don’t require an M&E. Here’s the problem I have with all of this. 1. The relationship of dialog to music and FX changes drastically when the VO is talking over dialog but the MX and FX has to stay a bit louder to help sell the animation jokes. Therefore, mixing with a DME fader does not help. 2. Treating the on camera Host as VO completely eliminates the rule of keeping music and FX dipped under sync dialog since this “VO” is sync dialog! I get there isn’t always one way to skin a cat but seriously these networks need to conform to ONE way that will work for every territory in the world. 9 out of 10 shows I mix don’t even know what a fully filled M&E is. |
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