close to Simon Phillips' sound?

[Remco]

I'm having trouble getting a good kick sound maybe some of you can advice on the use of mics.

The sound I'm looking for is something like Simon Phillips on the Toto Mindfields album. To me that kick sounds as if there are at least 2 mics, one in the bassdrum and one outsite, you can really feel the pressure coming from that kick, it sounds so cool. I figure if I can get a sound like that then everything else must be a piece of cake [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I'll give a list of all the mics available:

2x akg 414
1x akg d12
2x neumann km84
2x neumann m149
4x sennheiser md421
2x sennheiser md441
2x sennheiser mkh50
1x electrovoice re20
4x shure sm57
2x shure sm87

I get a reasonable sound with the combination of the d12 inside and the 414 outside. But I have to eq the d12 source a lot to make it reasonable.

thanx,

Remco

[gerax]

Usually a good combination of mics to get a good kick sound is: AKG D 112 (I prefer Shure B52) just inside the drum, I usually place it in the hole in the head so that the half of the mic is at the same level as the head, and a good large diaphargm condenser (usually a Neumann U47 Fet) just a foot outside the drum, so the dynamic inside picks the attack and the punch of the drum, while the condenser gets a more acoustic, natural sound; in mixdown combine the two as you like, copmress and EQ as needed. Try to build a tunnel with mic stands and blankets over the Kick drum to minimize leaking from other drums in the kit, especially Hi-hat and crash cymbals. Also make sure you're using a good drum with new heads and check its tuning; find a good spot in the room where you get a good sound, usually the corners tend to give you back some more bass, that you could use at your own advantage with room mics to add some "meat" to the kick.

I hope this helps

L.G. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Mount Royal]

Is there a role for a good condenser, much as gerax suggests, but on the beater head? There is a lot of acoustic information there.

Johnn Caldwell

[adam_w1]

Have a look in the users section on this very site..there's a story on the techniques of guess who..Simon Phillips [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Jules]

I've recorded Simon Phillips, he set the mic's up... I seem to remember him having an RE20 in each bass drum... but that was a long time ago..

He STARTED with the room mic's then gradually eased in the close mic's when we were getting a balance on his kit in the CR.

[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[tnie]

Simon Phillips used AKG D12's in the bass drums. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Next, get a great drummer that hits the BD with force or get Simon Phillips ! Always start at the source! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Michael Greene]

I have had the chance to record Simon Phillips a couple of times in the last few years. He now uses Sure beta 52's in his kick drums. Also you have to hear his kick drums to believe them. I believe they are both 24" Kicks with full heads on both sides. The mic's are mounted inside and you don't touch them. They are about 6" away from the beaters and dead on looking at them. On the second session he had me use a speaker as a microphone and we sent that thru a direct box into the console. It gives a wonderful "boom" track that I tucked in just a little to give a bit of extra depth and guts to the sound. I have tried this with other drummers using all different size monitors, NS-10 to an ampeg bass cabinet 15" speaker. All work well with different results. He tunes his drums amazingly well. They are very loose but they boom in a wonderful way. As you know if the drum not tuned well and the drummer does not play balanced then you can mic and tweak for days and all you will get is crap. Simon plays very balanced and also tunes his kit very very well. Plus he is the nicest guy in the world to work with. No ego but able to push you to make it sound great.
He is truly a great drummer to record.

[Remco]

Thank you all!

Michael; Really great info you've provided me with. I know I should have a great drummer in order to get something simular, it's just that I want to know how to get that sound if everything is right. He's got the best bassdrum sound I've ever heard. His sound will do well in every kinda music even the loud rock/metal stuff. I kinda hate those clicky sounding bassdrums all these meatal guys use nowadays, sure..it comes through but you could almost also use a rimshot (to double), which would have the same effect.
Ah well...what do I know, just started out as an engineer and allready have an opinion, nah... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[tnie]

He moved from D12's to the Beta 52's? Wow! I like the D12's but prefer the EV 868.........I read in a mag that the B52's capsule is identical to the 57 except with a different filter circuit?

Oh, The bass drums are 24" with towels for dampening on the beater head at the edge. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Alécio Costa]

I would recommend an sm91. I have been able to achieve very good results with DW kits as well as Odery kits.

Odery is a drum kit done in Brazil, similar to Master custom from Pearl at a much better price!!