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  #181  
Old 08-09-2019, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: NVMe upgrade for Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 Mojave

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Originally Posted by ghostwriter View Post
Yes, the directions are non-existant, but I did figure it out and was going to post photos after I got it up and running. Mine are parallel to the Crest. It turns out I did have a bad card. The new one is in and working beautifully. First thing I did was move a large file from one 970 on the Crest to the other 970. Bam, done. No crashes, PT working great.
Very cool

For World Studios info in my Crest box there was a little baggie with 8 or 10 tiny wide top screws the two dual diameter spacer nuts and a tiny little phillips screwdriver.


Also There is more fan noise probably because of the two new fans. One in the new video card and now the one in the Crest
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Avid HD Omni I/O Interface ...Mid 2010 Mac Pro/ processor- 3.33 6-core Intel Xeon "Westmere" w/ Memory- 24 GB, Radeon Pulse RX 580 8GB GDDR5 Dual HDMI Graphics Card..... OS- Mojave 10.14.6, and PTHDN 2019.6 on on primary boot drive (SSD PCIe 512 GB Samsung SM951) FCPX files storage on Samsung 970 EVO 1TB and PT sessions storage on 2nd Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB -- both in dual drive Crest I/O PCIE controller adaptor card


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Last edited by K Roche; 08-09-2019 at 03:11 PM.
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  #182  
Old 08-09-2019, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: NVMe upgrade for Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 Mojave

Here are a few more pics.

The first is the back of the Crest. If you look at the far left you will see the two srews that attach to the brass risers from the bottom to keep them on the board. Then another screw holds the ssd card down to the same brass riser on the opposite side of the board.

To remove the heat sink cover you will need to remove the four perimeter screws. The screwdriver they provide is a joke if they come tightened as tight as mine were. The second Crest was not near as tight. The second photo shows their screwdriver next to a jeweler's screwdriver, it's tiny.

The third pic is of both ssd drives attached.
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  #183  
Old 08-09-2019, 07:26 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: NVMe upgrade for Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 Mojave

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
I wouldn't worry about it. In my 2013 trashcan Apple for some reason used heatsinked ssd's but any other brand I've used have omitted the heatsink and performed flawlessly.

I have no idea what kind of 24/7/365 100% stress test Apple has performed when they have found so much heat generated from ssd that they think heatsink is needed. After my hardest and longest stress test I can think of, opening the case and touching the ssd it is only lukewarm. I think memory runs hotter.
*No*

I would worry about it. Especially since it is almost no effort. What a Mac Trashcan has inside it, with a very carefully designed airflow to cool its SSD has *nothing* to do with the situation here in a shrouded airflow system where the manufacture has included bonding to a heatsink.

These 970 Evo will consume 6W or so under load, that might be in the ballpark of many DIMMs, but so what that's irrelevant too. Computers are designed with very specific cooling to handle that constant DIMM heat load. A small fan in a shroud in a PCIE slot with 2 x 6W, that may add up. And you are defeating that shroud as a heatshink design, not a good idea at all. These things are pretty easy to thermal model today, lots of consultants out there that will do that for even small manufacturers, so follow the manufacturers advice.
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  #184  
Old 08-09-2019, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: NVMe upgrade for Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 Mojave

We can agree to disagree.

But the fact is; if after stressing your system you open the case and touch the components by hand, everything is okay if you dont burn your fingers.
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  #185  
Old 08-10-2019, 12:48 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: NVMe upgrade for Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 Mojave

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
We can agree to disagree.

But the fact is; if after stressing your system you open the case and touch the components by hand, everything is okay if you dont burn your fingers.
But the fact is you cannot feel the temps of the M.2 drives involved, they are hidden behind a shroud...and they sure hit issues before being too hot to touch, including performance throttling and decreased life. if folks want to mess around looking at measured drive temps vs throttling specs knock yourselves out.

Everybody else can just follow the install instructions.
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  #186  
Old 08-10-2019, 03:46 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: NVMe upgrade for Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 Mojave

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Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
*No*

I would worry about it. Especially since it is almost no effort. What a Mac Trashcan has inside it, with a very carefully designed airflow to cool its SSD has *nothing* to do with the situation here in a shrouded airflow system where the manufacture has included bonding to a heatsink.

These 970 Evo will consume 6W or so under load, that might be in the ballpark of many DIMMs, but so what that's irrelevant too. Computers are designed with very specific cooling to handle that constant DIMM heat load. A small fan in a shroud in a PCIE slot with 2 x 6W, that may add up. And you are defeating that shroud as a heatshink design, not a good idea at all. These things are pretty easy to thermal model today, lots of consultants out there that will do that for even small manufacturers, so follow the manufacturers advice.
I don't understand your statement of "And you are defeating that shroud as a heatshink design, not a good idea at all." - please explain. And what is this 'small fan in a shroud in a pcie slot' you speak of?

And I believe the Mac cheesegrater's cooling is actually designed for way more cooling than you think. How about putting cards in every slot in the card cage? Surely that raises the heat load?
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  #187  
Old 08-10-2019, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: NVMe upgrade for Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 Mojave

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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
I don't understand your statement of "And you are defeating that shroud as a heatshink design, not a good idea at all." - please explain. And what is this 'small fan in a shroud in a pcie slot' you speak of?

And I believe the Mac cheesegrater's cooling is actually designed for way more cooling than you think. How about putting cards in every slot in the card cage? Surely that raises the heat load?
I believe the small fan he is talking about is the one mounted on the Crest Card itself (see ghostwriters post #178, the picture on right shows the fan)

I now have all 4 PCIe slots filled and I would guess the answer is yes, there is more heat generated, because as I mentioned there now seems to be more (slightly louder) and constant fan noise coming from my machine. Such that because I am in a one room situation. I will now have to address that noise while trying to record more so than before (It's always somthin' )
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Avid HD Omni I/O Interface ...Mid 2010 Mac Pro/ processor- 3.33 6-core Intel Xeon "Westmere" w/ Memory- 24 GB, Radeon Pulse RX 580 8GB GDDR5 Dual HDMI Graphics Card..... OS- Mojave 10.14.6, and PTHDN 2019.6 on on primary boot drive (SSD PCIe 512 GB Samsung SM951) FCPX files storage on Samsung 970 EVO 1TB and PT sessions storage on 2nd Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB -- both in dual drive Crest I/O PCIE controller adaptor card


"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

Enjoy the Journey
.... Kev...

Last edited by K Roche; 08-10-2019 at 06:57 AM.
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  #188  
Old 08-10-2019, 11:05 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: NVMe upgrade for Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 Mojave

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Originally Posted by K Roche View Post
I believe the small fan he is talking about is the one mounted on the Crest Card itself (see ghostwriters post #178, the picture on right shows the fan)

I now have all 4 PCIe slots filled and I would guess the answer is yes, there is more heat generated, because as I mentioned there now seems to be more (slightly louder) and constant fan noise coming from my machine. Such that because I am in a one room situation. I will now have to address that noise while trying to record more so than before (It's always somthin' )
One of the questions is is the extra heat being generated beyond what the Mac's cooling system can handle? I understand there's extra heat but is it all that much to be worried about? I get the fans may be running a bit faster but again - are things within what's considered normal operating specs? I'd say get iStat Pro (I think it's a pay-for now) and see what it's saying for your internal temps.

The extra noise you're hearing - is it at the pitch the fans are running at or is it more of a rumble aka case resonance? A long time ago in another universe I worked for a company that made cooling equipment (fans, air conditioners, etc.) for electronics and racks. Sometimes a customer would say there's a problem with an assembly (noisy) and we'd get it in and power it up and everything was okay. Turns out in a lot of cases it was resonance within the rack and the way the cooling assembly was mounted. Try this if you can: if your cheesegrater is sitting on a hard surface place it on some kind of isolation material like you would put under a monitor speaker and see if the sound diminishes.
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  #189  
Old 08-10-2019, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: NVMe upgrade for Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 Mojave

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Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
One of the questions is is the extra heat being generated beyond what the Mac's cooling system can handle? I understand there's extra heat but is it all that much to be worried about? I get the fans may be running a bit faster but again - are things within what's considered normal operating specs? I'd say get iStat Pro (I think it's a pay-for now) and see what it's saying for your internal temps.
I guess I am confused as to what is inspiring the question. Whatever the heat increase is, doesn't matter does it ? Given the Crest card comes with the fan already installed it seems like a non issue and thus is not a worry

Quote:
The extra noise you're hearing - is it at the pitch the fans are running at or is it more of a rumble aka case resonance? A long time ago in another universe I worked for a company that made cooling equipment (fans, air conditioners, etc.) for electronics and racks. Sometimes a customer would say there's a problem with an assembly (noisy) and we'd get it in and power it up and everything was okay. Turns out in a lot of cases it was resonance within the rack and the way the cooling assembly was mounted. Try this if you can: if your cheesegrater is sitting on a hard surface place it on some kind of isolation material like you would put under a monitor speaker and see if the sound diminishes.[
I am pretty sure it is the pitch of the fans, the computer is sitting on a heavy industrial grade carpet and pad, so is somewhat iso from the floor
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Avid HD Omni I/O Interface ...Mid 2010 Mac Pro/ processor- 3.33 6-core Intel Xeon "Westmere" w/ Memory- 24 GB, Radeon Pulse RX 580 8GB GDDR5 Dual HDMI Graphics Card..... OS- Mojave 10.14.6, and PTHDN 2019.6 on on primary boot drive (SSD PCIe 512 GB Samsung SM951) FCPX files storage on Samsung 970 EVO 1TB and PT sessions storage on 2nd Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB -- both in dual drive Crest I/O PCIE controller adaptor card


"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

Enjoy the Journey
.... Kev...
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  #190  
Old 08-10-2019, 06:02 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: NVMe upgrade for Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 Mojave

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Originally Posted by K Roche View Post
I guess I am confused as to what is inspiring the question. Whatever the heat increase is, doesn't matter does it ? Given the Crest card comes with the fan already installed it seems like a non issue and thus is not a worry

I am pretty sure it is the pitch of the fans, the computer is sitting on a heavy industrial grade carpet and pad, so is somewhat iso from the floor
I don't think the heat load IS a worry to tell the truth.

So yeah - your machine is pretty well isolated from whatever hard surface is underneath it. Do you have some kind of system monitor s/w like iStat Pro to tell what the temps are and what the fans are doing?
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