|
Avid Pro Audio CommunityHow to Join & Post • Community Terms of Use • Help Us Help YouKnowledge Base Search • Community Search • Learn & Support |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Cinema mixing levels poll
https://goo.gl/forms/8bK5mvxxWFEezdhx1
Hi all, in an effort to get as much data as possible about cinema mixing levels around the world, I have created a short poll. It would be great if as many people could answer the questions. Thanks |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Cinema mixing levels poll
Can you share the results when you're done? It's anonymous data right?
__________________
Nathaniel Reichman Producer/Re-recording Mixer - New York Nathaniel Reichman | IMDB | LinkedIn |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Cinema mixing levels poll
When will the poll be finished ?
__________________
PT 11.3.2 HD , RME Fireface 800 , Genelec 5.1 , Win7 64bit Professional , i7 3930 Hexcore , 48GB Ram , SSD System + SSD PT Session/Audio + SSD Video (all Samsung 840 Evo) + Spinner 1TB Data , 2x Radeon HD 5450 \\ SD 633 Femto MKH8060 MKH8070 MKH30/MKH40 DPA4060 |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Cinema mixing levels poll
This is a good idea, it'll be interesting to see the results.
Like all these multiple choice things it doesn't allow for the level of accuracy answering these questions that would be really interesting. for example a lot of people will prep a mix in a smaller room and final in a big Theatre, that's not really covered in this. At the end of the day I think we need an agreed loudness standard for film, similar to R128 in broadcast and we can get back to enjoying mixing.
__________________
Mac Pro 7,1 16 core, OSX 12.7.3, HD-Native TB, Trinnov MC, MTRX Studio, 2xRME ADA-4, Sync HD, AJA IO XT, Avid Dock, Avid S1, PT Control, Soundflow, PT 2023.12 |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Cinema mixing levels poll
I know, that was why I created two different poll questions for predubs and finals. There are many other technical details that could have been covered, but in all honesty I'm not sure I would be able to interpret them nor find how relevant they are to the big picture, which is the recurring issue of cinema sound levels.
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Cinema mixing levels poll
Quote:
It would be a good basis of a 'standard'. Quote:
__________________
Mac Pro 7,1 16 core, OSX 12.7.3, HD-Native TB, Trinnov MC, MTRX Studio, 2xRME ADA-4, Sync HD, AJA IO XT, Avid Dock, Avid S1, PT Control, Soundflow, PT 2023.12 |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Cinema mixing levels poll
Quote:
Why is it a bad idea in short? Loudness standard for broadcast is there so there are no big jumps between channels and stations. After all, the viewer has the remote and controls the listening level to taste. What happens if you use a loudness standard in a theater where the viewer cannot do this? A film like Mad Max or 300 will sound as loud or soft as a very quiet intimistic film. It`s like having a standard for concerts that says that a concert by Metallica should sound exactly as loud as a piano piece by Satie. Keep in mind that R128 was developed specifically for broadcast and all tests where done at 65dBa (if I remember correct, it`s in the papers), which is way softer than cinema. Keep in mind that R128 loudness metering is intended for programs with dynamic range smaller than +-20 dB (max 'range' you can measure is about 26 dB). This summer I was sent a document by some Dutch guys who are trying to get loudness standards into cinema. I did a small test which is very easy to setup, both with test tones/noises and actual footage. 1) I took a rough mix of a quiet short film I was working on, which measured -43.3 LUFS. 2) I boosted it with a MB compressor and limiter to -27.8 dB (which didn`t sound great, but still acceptable) 3) To both versions I added a 30s helicopter sound at a random spot in the film (same spot of course in both versions) of -16,9 LUFS 4) V1 (the quiet one) now measures - 19.7 LUFS, V2 (the compressed loud one) just -26.1 LUFS So when working with dynamic material, it' s perfectly possible and very easy to make mixes that measure far less loudness, while they actually are much louder. Besides, think of a theatre as a concert hall. You simply don't want every film to sound equally loud. That's exactly why the current standard is there and it should be defended by all means imo. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Cinema mixing levels poll
to be slightly more precise, the paper was not so much about a loudness standard, but rather about maximum levels using loudness measuring, but that runs into exactly the same problems.
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Cinema mixing levels poll
I can't edit right now as I'm logged in under another account, but of course I meant channels and programs
|
#10
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Cinema mixing levels poll
Quote:
Quote:
While mixing for Dolby Digital (which has 20 dB of headroom over 85), we had to live with limitations - those of analog soundtracks (100% modulation was 6dB above 85) that served as a backup in case of DD failure during the playback in cinemas. Consequently, you could not make your mix louder than what was permitted by physical limitations of an optical soundtrack, because there would be a huge difference in levels, and "seamless switching" between analog and digital would be impossible. Dolby Consultants would attend print mastering sessions and assure this request was respected. The great difference between digital and analog was (apart from discrete surrounds and LFE) in transients. Loudness wars started immediately after analog disappeared from our workflow - engineers were quick to fill the empty space above -20 FS and make "louder" mixes. So, to recap, you cannot just simply go back to pre-DCP standards, because the conditions have changed, and there's nothing (and no one) to tell you where's the limit. As Cheesehead says, we need some new standards/limitations. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Cinema Chains - sadness at poor levels | MIKEROPHONICS | Post - Surround - Video | 63 | 08-15-2012 03:40 PM |
Audio levels for cinema | Minty | Post - Surround - Video | 1 | 03-29-2010 08:35 PM |
Dolby Cinema Levels | TAFF | Post - Surround - Video | 4 | 10-05-2008 02:51 AM |
POLL: How are you guys mixing? | Maskeeper | Post - Surround - Video | 20 | 07-11-2005 09:21 PM |
Mix levels for TV dramma, Cinema and DVD | mgoorevich | Post - Surround - Video | 2 | 10-26-2004 11:29 PM |