Multiple Session Drives -

[Roulette Records]

Greetings guys ! Been a while.

Since my return, taking the upgrade plunge to HDX soon. And currently upgraded my Laptop to Standard PT12.

Anyway, had some questions.

Drives.... back when I last was in effect (HD Accel 7), it was highly suggested by Digidesign to get maximum track count, you have to run multiple drives just for your sessions. (not including library, mix, and OS drives)

They used to have a chart about achieving maximum track counts in a HD environment, it was mandatory you used several drives just for tracking, as it was more efficient.

As a matter of fact, you could not achieve the advertised maximum track count unless you used this method (for HD).

How it used to be, was you had to have around 6 drives just for the tracking (then more for libraries, mixes, and obviously one for the Apps and OS). I was running a 10 drive set up !

So for example, in my 10 drive set up, I had 6 dedicated JUST for the tracking. And I would assign Playback and Record like this:

Track 1—>Drive 1
Track 2—>Drive 2
Track 3—>Drive 3
Track 4—>Drive 4
Track 5—>Drive 5
Track 6—>Drive 6
-------------------------
Track 7—>Drive 1
Track 8—>Drive 2
Track 9—>Drive 3
Track 10—>Drive 4
Track 11—>Drive 5
Track 12—>Drive 6
-------------------------
Track 13—>Drive 1
Track 14—>Drive 2
Track 15—>Drive 3
Track 16—>Drive 4
Track 17—>Drive 5
Track 18—>Drive 6

And so on and so on. This provided the ultimate efficiency. So now since I can not find that info anywhere, I ask, does or does not Avid still recommend using several drives for tracking to achieve the maximum track counts in a HD environment for better efficiency/results ? Or, can I use 1 session drive for a 256 track session with tons of Plugs, etc.. and experience no problems or efficiency issues at all ?

Also, similar. Digidesign used to have a chart of qualifying/recommended Drives and/or Drive companies. (Glyph, Chipsets, etc..). Again, no where on the site is this information found anymore. So is there or is there not the "go to" drive company in the industry still ?

I imagine maybe with the way drives are now, thunderbolt 2, SSD, etc.. that maybe its as simple as any and all drives work equally now ?

Thanks for any info -

[JFreak]

I'm sorry to hear you had such a trouble with tracking. You could have just set those six drives to "record" and rest of the tracks to "playback" or "transfer", then use round-robin disc allocation and PT would have allocated tracks evenly to your drives automatically.

Proper drive management is a skill that doesn't go away as long as you use spinners. But with that said, if you have PT10 or later and have the Disc Cache feature activated, you would not really need this oldskool allocation any longer. Using single drive is just fine, provided all of the tracks fit into that.

I have actually managed to record 96 tracks @96k into a USB thumb drive (that was a dummy test session, recording 96 tracks of silence, but still). If you haven't already, take a close look at the Disc Cache feature and if it requires you to buy some more memory for your old workstation, it is well worth the upgrade.

[Roulette Records]

Originally Posted by JFreak

I'm sorry to hear you had such a trouble with tracking. You could have just set those six drives to "record" and rest of the tracks to "playback" or "transfer", then use round-robin disc allocation and PT would have allocated tracks evenly to your drives automatically.

Proper drive management is a skill that doesn't go away as long as you use spinners. But with that said, if you have PT10 or later and have the Disc Cache feature activated, you would not really need this oldskool allocation any longer. Using single drive is just fine, provided all of the tracks fit into that.

I have actually managed to record 96 tracks @96k into a USB thumb drive (that was a dummy test session, recording 96 tracks of silence, but still). If you haven't already, take a close look at the Disc Cache feature and if it requires you to buy some more memory for your old workstation, it is well worth the upgrade.

JFreak !! Awesome to hear from you again. Don't know if you remember me. But yea, I remember your name. We've discussed things in the past on many a forum.

Wow dude, moderator now ?? When did that happen ? Congrats !

Ok, anyway, back on subject.... yea I figured as much. Seems with the new drives, all that stuff is out the door. Top that with I will be using SSD's, no spinners now. So I am sure I will be fine.

And it was not a pain at all back in the day, as once you set it up, it stayed like that. Plus took no time at all.

I'll still use a lot of drives now, but this time all but 2 will be dedicated to Instrument Libraries. I still think it is a good idea to separate your session drive from your "bounce to" drive right ?

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Roulette Records

Wow dude, moderator now ?? When did that happen ? Congrats !

I was among the first ones when they started adding user moderators

Originally Posted by Roulette Records

I still think it is a good idea to separate your session drive from your "bounce to" drive right ?

Doesn't matter if you have PT10 or later and are using Disc Cache (it streams to and from memory). As you can guess, it is an HD-only feature, but you are a HD-user it as you have Accel7 and thinking of upgrading to HDX

But before you do, take a careful look about the plugins you use and NEED to be using when you track. Waves for example does have AAX-native plugins but they didn't bother making AAX-DSP versions. Avid stuff is DSP and so is Sonnox and McDSP. Some others too, but go through that list before you retire that Accel7 rig. I myself went the HDN route back in 2012 but the plugin situation has gotten better now.

[Roulette Records]

Interesting. Ok, I will need to look into, read up on and understand this Disk Cache thing. I can see what your saying now, but seemingly there has to be some limit to how much the cache can handle ?

It streams from "Memory". Well, what memory ? The Ram ? If som then is it not limited to how much Ram you got ?

Plug ins - Yes, I need to check up on it. But doesn't HDX run native and DSP plug ins ?

[JFreak]

It uses RAM and in my case (rMBPwith 16GB memory) I can choose up to 12GB cache. Which means if my session fits into 12GB it can be totally streamed from RAM.

HDX runs Native plugs too, but as with mixing TDM/RTAS your latency might suffer

[Roulette Records]

Originally Posted by JFreak

It uses RAM and in my case (rMBPwith 16GB memory) I can choose up to 12GB cache. Which means if my session fits into 12GB it can be totally streamed from RAM.

HDX runs Native plugs too, but as with mixing TDM/RTAS your latency might suffer

Good news ! Now lets see if Avid makes me run from the new policies pertaining to licensing now. And the bug list is ridiculous.

I swore I heard somewhere that upon the release of AAX plugins that Avid advertised they would be stripping the software down and restructuring from the ground up ?

This is something they desperately need as there is over 17+ years of old un-needed code buried in there. Which is why a new DAW company can come along and make the same features and even more run way more solid and smooth and "light" feeling. (Studio One for example). Cause its built from the ground up from day 1 with the now-a-days DAW features.

I was so happy to hear about that, and was excited when I came back I would feel like I was on PT 6 again. = SOLID, yet on PT12.

But looks like they decided to let the investors talk them out of that one, now their in this mess.

I was excited when I first came back, but now catching up on reading, quite frankly I do not want to get ripped off having to buy support annually. Thats bogus and total extortion. I left Adobe for that crap idea. I don't rent, I buy, and what I buy needs to work and be backed to work properly from the company I bought it from for the cost of the purchase and not a dime more.

Anyway, thanks for the info, but now I have much other things to think about.

[JFreak]

AFAIK,

PT12 runs almost as good as PT8.1.1 (which coupled with OSX 10.6.8 is one of the most stable systems ever). Snappiness is on par with PT6.4.1 (on OSX 10.3.4) and if you count the features you gain from PT6 to PT8 to PT12 the difference is huge.

The subscription thing is just upgrade price charged annually. There might never be PT13 but instead just "PT Software" that is updated periodically. We do not know. PT12 was just released and it was only a starting point. Most of the users have their licenses sorted out now so we can begin waiting for the new features to come.

From my standpoint, I couldn't care less whether PT12.0.0 was called PT11.4.0 or whatever, but it feels much more stable than any PT11 ever. And I was already happy with PT11 on Yosemite.

[Roulette Records]

Originally Posted by JFreak

AFAIK,

PT12 runs almost as good as PT8.1.1 (which coupled with OSX 10.6.8 is one of the most stable systems ever). Snappiness is on par with PT6.4.1 (on OSX 10.3.4) and if you count the features you gain from PT6 to PT8 to PT12 the difference is huge.

The subscription thing is just upgrade price charged annually. There might never be PT13 but instead just "PT Software" that is updated periodically. We do not know. PT12 was just released and it was only a starting point. Most of the users have their licenses sorted out now so we can begin waiting for the new features to come.

From my standpoint, I couldn't care less whether PT12.0.0 was called PT11.4.0 or whatever, but it feels much more stable than any PT11 ever. And I was already happy with PT11 on Yosemite.

Yea, for me the problem is, I do not want to pay anything till I need/want it. See I bought PT6-7 HD Accel (forget which) and then didn't need to update for a while, years. Then when wanted, I did for the upgrade fee.

During them years I did not need 1 drop of tech support, or any support. And most importantly, as my right to do, I did not give Digidesign 1 bit of more money during that time.

That is the way it should be and obviously always be. Anything else becomes extortion.

I do not mind not getting the updates and leaving my system as is (like they say we can do) - BUT the issue is when I do want to upgrade again, being locked out forever unless I pay probably some ridiculous fee.

Basically, Avid is turning into Waves/Adobe. Its a bunk marketing plan cause its robbery. And business' only start to do it once they are hurting badly. And look what happened to Waves, lol, they had to soften up massively with their old stupid WUP prices and policies.

You buy a carton of milk, do you then need to keep sending the manufacture of that carton .25¢ every day so you can continue to drink it and get another carton, and if you don't do they lock you out of every being able to drink milk again ? No.

This governmental concept of "property tax" umbrelled under "support plan" just so I can have a future with the system I purchase is absurd.

$599 a year is absurd. I do not use .01¢ of support in a year. And within the 3-4 years when I actually do usually want to upgrade, the upgrade is not worth the $2,400 I just spent.

Now, $599-$799 is about what a major upgrade should cost outright. Regardless of how long I been "out-of-the-loop".

I hope Avid is reading this. I have always been a good customer and spent a ridiculous amount of money on Digidesign. But now I am unsure I will spend money with Avid unless they choose to be more fair.

They do understand there is a awesome DAW out there called Studio One right ? Costs $200 for the biggest best one, and from what I can tell, operates just like PT HDX. And yet to find one bug. Uses any hardware, rock solid and all specs out (ins and outs, track count, etc..) equivalent to PT HDX.

I just like PT better, so I want it to stay around. And I will even pay its inflated ONE TIME price compared to other DAWS equivalent. But I do not like it thirty of thousands of dollars better over a period of time eating away at me $600 annually ! lol Which is what it will cost me over the years. Avid, do the math please. Your hanging yourself with what you think is a good idea for yourself. But it is neither good for your loyal customer base or you in the long run.

[Andi R]

with HDDs we track up to 64 Channels per drive, so e.g. 1-64 Drive 1, 65-128 Drive 2, 129-192 Drive 3.

with SSDs we track 256 Channels on 1 SSD. easy.