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  #11  
Old 05-13-2004, 05:53 PM
Crashbasket Crashbasket is offline
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Default Re: Getting better mixes....

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Sorry guy's, I used Paris for a year and it was weak. The automation was beyond poor all moves were vertical or horizontal nothing diaganal, it wasn't fit for mixing dog poop! I think you were just enthralled with what a DAW could do and since you were still very new at it everything sounded good to you. The convertors were weak and flabby with almost no precision or real clarity and you could hear the distortion at all levels. But I've been at this for a long ,long time. On a scale from 1 to 10 with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best I would rate Paris at a solid two. M-Box at a 4, 001, at a 5 002 at a 7, HD at a 9 I think the lexicon Opus was far better than theParis system in fact I would rate the Paris system on a par with my soundblaster card, usable just not very good.
Interesting observation. Back in '97 I had been working with analog exclusively. I needed a DAW and after using Cakewalk, I decided that native wasn't ready for prime time. I then tried ProTools and the DAL V-8 system. Both were much more usable than native but they just sounded so sterile to my ears. Then I heard Paris and bought it. The sound was much closer to what i was used to hearing with analog tape and processing. It just never got off the ground for a lot of reasons. As time went by, I still needed to interface with studios that had ProTools and I bought an 001. My first thought on hearing it play back a mix was that it sounded good (better than the older TDM systems) and that it was much easier to mix music that sounded like what I was hearing on contemporary radio which brings me to my point........when I bought Paris, I was used to hearing mostly analog productions. As the years went by, I became much more accustomed to hearing mixes made totally within the digital realm so Pro Tools and native systems that have that *digital accuracy* sound much more *normal* to my ears. It's possible to do but I've really got to struggle to get this kind of sound out of my Paris rig. It's pretty effortless to do with Digi, Cubase or other native systems. Which is better????? What the client wants to hear, IMHO. Which do I prefer????? Being old and all, I like the analog sound that I grew up with so short of having a NEVE and an Ampex, my personal preference is Paris and I think you must have received a defective system if you remember it sounding anything at all like a Sound Blaster. Different strokes.

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  #12  
Old 05-14-2004, 04:49 AM
dnafe dnafe is offline
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Default Re: Getting better mixes....

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Interesting observation. Back in '97 I had been working with analog exclusively. I needed a DAW and after using Cakewalk, I decided that native wasn't ready for prime time. I then tried ProTools and the DAL V-8 system. Both were much more usable than native but they just sounded so sterile to my ears. Then I heard Paris and bought it. The sound was much closer to what i was used to hearing with analog tape and processing. It just never got off the ground for a lot of reasons. As time went by, I still needed to interface with studios that had ProTools and I bought an 001. My first thought on hearing it play back a mix was that it sounded good (better than the older TDM systems) and that
it was much easier to mix music that sounded like what I was hearing on contemporary radio which brings me to my point........when I bought Paris, I was used to hearing mostly analog productions. As the years went by, I became much more accustomed to hearing mixes made totally within the digital realm so Pro Tools and native systems that have that *digital accuracy* sound much more *normal* to my ears. It's possible to do but I've really got to struggle to get this kind of sound out of my Paris rig. It's pretty effortless to do with Digi, Cubase or other native systems. Which is better????? What the client wants to hear, IMHO. Which do I prefer????? Being old and all, I like the analog sound that I grew up with so short of having a NEVE and an Ampex, my personal preference is Paris and I think you must have received a defective system if you remember it sounding anything at all like a Sound Blaster. Different strokes.

Now that makes sense...thoughtful post (and the truth)


Don
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  #13  
Old 05-14-2004, 11:29 PM
s0nguy s0nguy is offline
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Default Re: Getting better mixes....

PARISites represent!

I still use it and love it right alongside ProTools......I can clock both of em off the 2192 (sorry...just had to get it in there again)

-S0nguy

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  #14  
Old 05-21-2004, 04:58 PM
mixer mixer is offline
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Default Re: Getting better mixes....

have not worked on paris for a long time..but i thought it was a great sounding system...but i do love my accel.
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  #15  
Old 05-27-2004, 01:16 PM
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O.G. Killa O.G. Killa is offline
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Default Re: Getting better mixes....

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For example.....When I add the Renaissance Bass plug to a bass in PARIS, it fills out and just sounds "wider and deeper". When I add the same plug-in to a PT mix is doesnt change the same way.....it just gets deeper but not wider or any "cooler".

I have noticed these problems too and they should go away (for the most part anyway) with PTHD 6.4 and ADC turned on.

I just installed 6.4 on my studio's HD Accel system. I am about to install it on the other two HD systems. From what little I've heard on the first system...ADC seems to fix a lot of these problems. Still haven't done extensive testing/experimenting yet though...but my initial reaction was, "damn! This is what it's supposed to have sounded like all along".

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  #16  
Old 05-28-2004, 06:31 AM
sirgarz sirgarz is offline
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Default Re: Getting better mixes....

While i agree with you about ADC, Songuy was actually talking about the 002 which already compesates for delay. Personally i do miss my Paris system, it sounded fantastic. I can't, however, say enough about how great pro tools has been for me. I'd like to make a suggestion to songuy which is a route i have just decided to take for my 002. Get a hold of some apogee converters and i think you will love the sound of your 002. Although i also have an accel system which i love, the 002 is now a great system for a 2nd studio.
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  #17  
Old 05-30-2004, 08:57 AM
s0nguy s0nguy is offline
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Default Re: Getting better mixes....

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While i agree with you about ADC, Songuy was actually talking about the 002 which already compesates for delay.
I was under the impression that the 002 does NOT compensate for delay and that it was only available to HD users. Am i wrong here?

Also....on the converter front....I got the UA2192 and it indeed does make me like my ProTools rig a lot more. And I use it with PARIS too.


Thanks for the tips.

-S0nguy


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  #18  
Old 05-31-2004, 08:08 PM
Felix Felix is offline
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Default Re: Getting better mixes....

getting better mixes...
here's what has been working for me:

with ProTools, i really find myself giving each voice the largest space possible via "hockey stick" EQ's, volume automation/modulation(like subtle tremelo sometimes), panning, expanders/gates... frequencies especially don't tend to blend well in ProTools, but if the sounds are heavily HPF/LPF and notched to keep them to themselves in the mix...

also, recording at proper levels is very important. observe 0 dBu as it's calibrated on the convertors; usually -14 or -18 dbfs.

much of this is sort of basic mixing/engineering. however, i believe it needs to be focused on more with ProTools.

(using great mic pre, convertors and a Fatso for recording helps greatly as well!)

these are some of the most important things i've learned over the years, and i've been very happy with the improved results.

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  #19  
Old 06-01-2004, 12:34 PM
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O.G. Killa O.G. Killa is offline
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Default Re: Getting better mixes....

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While i agree with you about ADC, Songuy was actually talking about the 002 which already compesates for delay. Personally i do miss my Paris system, it sounded fantastic. I can't, however, say enough about how great pro tools has been for me. I'd like to make a suggestion to songuy which is a route i have just decided to take for my 002. Get a hold of some apogee converters and i think you will love the sound of your 002. Although i also have an accel system which i love, the 002 is now a great system for a 2nd studio.
Well then, if he was talking about the 002 then HE'S IN THE WRONG FORUM! 002 questions should be in the LE forum...

And yes PTLE does already have some basic form of ADC. When you start to add a lot of processing it will start to shift. But it does adjust somewhat for small amounts of delay...don't believe me? Create an Aux track and bus an Aux send to it. Turn them both on at the same time...here any comb filtering? Nope! Do that on any TDM system before PT6.4 and you'll hear comb filtering.

Also did the test with some plugins too...when you start to use very CPU intensive plugins you'll notice it starts to get comb filtering...but just putting a REQ4 or an RCOMP won't have any comb filtering.

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  #20  
Old 06-01-2004, 08:27 PM
jude jude is offline
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Default Re: Getting better mixes....

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All,

I have been recording for about 5 years now and I want to know how to get better mixes in PT. Are there any books out there that would help me in this regard?

Thanks,
S0nguy
check out mixing with your mind its full of great advice

Jude
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