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#31
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Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?
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We should be prepared for a new era when we'll get no boom, Lav tracks only processed with some NoiseAssist plugin or upcoming new NR plugins implemented into cheaper recorders.
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Michael Goorevich Sound Designer / mixer www.goorevich.com PT HD⎪N v2024.3 Ultimate ● macOS Ventura 13.6.3 MacPro 7.1 (2019) 3.2GHz Intel Xeon W 16-Core ● 96 GB RAM MTRX Studio + DADman 5.7.0.1 + MOM ● Sync HD ● AJA Kona LHi referenced by AJA GEN10 ● D-Command ES24 |
#32
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Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?
Ha ha ha, you've touched upon my personal current pet hate - Location DNS hardware units. They should be banned! Ahhh didn't know NoiseAssist, just Googled it, FFS!
Pete |
#33
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Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?
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They can use it on their mix track if they want, but please not on the iso's. Interesting what you say Pete about the stylistic change in the way films are recorded. Watching a lot of films before Lav mics were invented it was perfectly acceptable to have a wide shot with a 'roomy/ Airy' sound and personally I still think that's fine as long as the dialogue is understood. Some shots on older films I have trouble working out how they captured the sound so well in the circumstances and they're clearly not dubbed! A lot of it seems to be down to discipline on sets, all these people milling about and on their headsets and of course, the importance of good sound recording was more appreciated in those days.
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Mac Pro 7,1 16 core, OSX 12.7.3, HD-Native TB, Trinnov MC, MTRX Studio, 2xRME ADA-4, Sync HD, AJA IO XT, Avid Dock, Avid S1, PT Control, Soundflow, PT 2023.12 |
#34
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Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?
I had some PM conversation with Cedar about their DNS2 boxes using on sets and how they promote them. I also had a similar discussion with someone at SoundDevices.
Both manufacturers see it as a democratisation for all who needs it process and they "hope" it won't affect recordists delivering the iso tracks to us. They also think that many modern productions often don't get to the post sound. Also the recordists them selfs are not completely aware of the problem since they continue to deliver the isos tracks. They say it aimed for some life streaming and IFB tasks... But it seems that they don't realise the problem. And this problem will at first impact the better sound recordists. A novice using DNS2, NoiseAssist or other built in the box NR plugin, will be delivering "better sounding" tracks for less money from the producer POV. And indeed "it will sound surprisingly good" from the speakers of the off line editors. Similar to a situation with the Lavs when they often ignore a good boom operator, we'll get poorer recorded material by less experienced recorders. My last hope is for iZotope coming with the new plugin called un-DNSer or un-NoiseAsister
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Michael Goorevich Sound Designer / mixer www.goorevich.com PT HD⎪N v2024.3 Ultimate ● macOS Ventura 13.6.3 MacPro 7.1 (2019) 3.2GHz Intel Xeon W 16-Core ● 96 GB RAM MTRX Studio + DADman 5.7.0.1 + MOM ● Sync HD ● AJA Kona LHi referenced by AJA GEN10 ● D-Command ES24 |
#35
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Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?
The production mixers I know well aren't any happier about this trend than we are. It's all about what the producers what and they want to hear the final mix in their comtex. I'm surprised they aren't asking for effects editors and Foley artists to be performing love on another stage and having that mixed in to what they hear. And where is that lazy composer anyway? Alright, I'm exaggerating now. A bit.
I love mixing perspective and using the boom heavily if not exclusively, but it's not what the producers want. They'll say "there's something wrong with the sound on the wide shot” and I'll say “that's perspective” and they'll say “oh. That's good. I like that, but just not so much perspective, ok?” I also don't like using noise reduction very much, just a light touch with a Cat43a used to be all we had and it worked, and I still prefer just a light touch with iZotope Dialog Denoise to all the many tools we have. Then the producer will say “that scene is really noisy” and I'll say “that's a sense of space; they're on a street corner in Manhattan, that's a noisy place” and again “oh. That's good. I like that, but maybe just not so much sense of space, ok?” I think a lot of producers, and a lot of people in our business, think mixing perspective and space is lazy and/or cheap, but it's a lot easier to throw money at it and process the crap out of it than it is to creatively work with what's there (on set and on screen) to really bring the audience into a world. So I keep spending money on plugins (*by far* our highest investment in processing is for the dialog chain) and keep demonstrating how much better it is if we spend a little more time tinkering to craft the sound a bit more. smart phone my ass |
#36
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Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?
Definitely prefer the sound of a well-placed boom.
When this first came out I thought, "Eh, but I've gotten pretty good at manual alignment when I need it and it's rare to mix sources, don't need it". Then I got stuck with a film with wide shot after wide shot. Or, actors never saying the same thing twice in alternate takes (so I couldn't cut in a line from a different boom angle). Auto-Align-Post did a better job than I could and much more quickly. I use the boom as reference because that is my main sound and I want to maintain that sense of sync (though, it is so slight, I doubt anyone would notice in most scenes) Then I blend to taste. Definitely worth the investment!
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Tom Hambleton CAS Ministry of Fancy Noises IMDb Undertone on Facebook Undertone Custom Sound Libraries "Groupable markers would be epochal!" -Starcrash |
#37
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Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?
Just to clarify, I much prefer the sound of a well placed boom, 9/10 times. My question was purely timing-wise and time-travel-consistency-wise in a purely technical standpoint for choosing which channel will be the anchor.
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-Ryan Young •2019 Mac Pro 3.5 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon W - 48 GB 2666 MHz DDR4 (OS 10.15.5) •HD Native PCIe, HD Omni, 192 I/o, Pro Tools Ultimate •Avid S3 + Dock •Blackmagic Intensity Pro (HDMI) •5.1 Room with JBL LSR4300 series
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#38
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Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?
If you are using the boom and it's "timing" 9/10 times, why change the timing for the 1/10 times?
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Tom Hambleton CAS Ministry of Fancy Noises IMDb Undertone on Facebook Undertone Custom Sound Libraries "Groupable markers would be epochal!" -Starcrash |
#39
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Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?
Ha, fair enough of a question. Here's my extreme and ridiculous example.
Let's say it's a shot of someone 200 feet away hitting a snare drum, just once. There's a shotgun mic near the camera (200' away from the drummer), and the drummer has a lav on. The sound of the shotgun would be delayed compared to what we're seeing on-camera much more than the "direct" source of the dummer's lav because of how long it takes for the sound to travel that distance. So, my reasoning is like the lav is like a direct feed versus the "live" feed, so to speak. Obviously, in that situation, the boom would be aligned, unless you wanted the realism of distance, right?
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-Ryan Young •2019 Mac Pro 3.5 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon W - 48 GB 2666 MHz DDR4 (OS 10.15.5) •HD Native PCIe, HD Omni, 192 I/o, Pro Tools Ultimate •Avid S3 + Dock •Blackmagic Intensity Pro (HDMI) •5.1 Room with JBL LSR4300 series
Last edited by Ryan Young; 06-11-2020 at 01:16 PM. |
#40
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Re: What are people's experiences with Auto-Align-Post?
If you have the lav and boom in phase, you can mix them together. Many mixers like the sound of both mics mixed.
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Brandon Howlett Vibe Audio Post, Inc. Re-recording Mixer Custom Build CPU, HDX 1, Omni, 192 I/O Digital S6 M10 24 fader Satellite Mac Pro, HDNative, 192 I/0 Black Magic HD Extreme |
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