After Write pass, Switch to:

[minister]

i thought i would start a bit of a public disussion of this preference before i submitted a feature Request.

currently, you can swith to :
Touch
Latch
or
No Change.

i have always wondered why not 'Read'? i always switch to read after writing automation. i RARELY use these other modes directly after writing.

what is the reason behind this? does it make sense on a work surface or console? can someone who understands automation better than me essplain it? because to me, it does not make sense that 'Read' is not a switch to option, not to mention the default.

thanks!

[cutflower]

I consider "read" to be the equivalent of the old-fashion "safe". Afterall, all modes are reading anyway unless disabled. Any button you don't have to push is a bonus.

[1150Post]

i thought i would start a bit of a public disussion of this preference before i submitted a feature Request.

currently, you can swith to :
Touch
Latch
or
No Change.

i have always wondered why not 'Read'? i always switch to read after writing automation. i RARELY use these other modes directly after writing.

what is the reason behind this? does it make sense on a work surface or console? can someone who understands automation better than me essplain it? because to me, it does not make sense that 'Read' is not a switch to option, not to mention the default.

thanks!

Hey Tom,

It's for those of us who don't "nail the mix" on the first non-stop pass.....

Man, I gotta mix with you! I think I could charge my clients for a couple days of mix, fly out to MN, have you run the show once, go get those beers we discussed previously (First round's on me!), then fly back with your session for laybacks, and STILL make good money.

But don't tell anybody, cool?

[philper]

i thought i would start a bit of a public disussion of this preference before i submitted a feature Request.

currently, you can swith to :
Touch
Latch
or
No Change.

i have always wondered why not 'Read'? i always switch to read after writing automation. i RARELY use these other modes directly after writing.

what is the reason behind this? does it make sense on a work surface or console? can someone who understands automation better than me essplain it? because to me, it does not make sense that 'Read' is not a switch to option, not to mention the default.

thanks!

I'm not much of a "take one" guy, so my most important work on the mix is done in the "touch" mode (or equivalent on other systems), after roughing the mix in in "write" mode.

Philip Perkins

[minister]

Hey Tom,

It's for those of us who don't "nail the mix" on the first non-stop pass.....

Man, I gotta mix with you! I think I could charge my clients for a couple days of mix, fly out to MN, have you run the show once, go get those beers we discussed previously (First round's on me!), then fly back with your session for laybacks, and STILL make good money.

But don't tell anybody, cool?

hiring me, might save you money...wait, i am under-valued!

you're not mixing in one take? what's the problem??? you can SEE the amplitude in the Waveform! i mix by eye! you should see how good my mixes look! and, don't you just use a lot of compressors and limiters to get a hold of the dynamics??? plus, i am usually so drunk by the second round that it doesn't matter.

ok, maybe it is because i didn't learn how to post thoroughly and exclusively on a console, and, i don't currently work on one. but i am not a one take wonder. yet, i can mix pretty fast. most 30 minute TV stuff is done in a 10 hour day - 2 if there are a lot of fx.

i used to go into write mode for plug-in automation passes, and then hit write to end. wouldn't it be useful in that situation? though, now i use snapshot more often than not.

as for volume, i write in a pass -- but will abort or re-write if i am unhappy. then, to adjust i will use the mouse or key commands to fine tune what i did. i'll rough in the dialog and then tweak the moves with a mouse and keyboard moves. once that and the fx are solid, i can often get the music really close in on or 2 passes. then, my moves are usually quickly adjusted with the mouse. i had a VO the other day that was so consistent, i didn't need to write a pass. i just made a some minor adjustments on a few regions and some phrases and words.

[Eric L]

Hey Tom, how's things?

Like you, I also have developed my own mixing strategy based on personal experiences and not so much from any tutoring from other mixers. That said, I'm positive that I could be more efficient at times if I had someone to show me other techniques. One of the reasons I love lurking the DUC.

Anyways, I never, ever, ever mix in write mode. Yep, that's what I said, never. I do not do it. Nope, I don't. Why? Cause I never understood why I needed to.

I mix from the same few templates that I have set up and I carry them around with me on a USB drive. These templates have been set up with a baseline of automation written across 10 hours of timeline using snapshot automation. Plugins are automated with default settings (my defaults, not factory defaults), reverb sends are written, volume, all mutes are cleared etc etc.

I then import any and all tracks from other sessions and pull the regions onto these pre set tracks.

I do not use the trim plugin as others do. Some mixers copy the mix automation from the editors tracks and paste it into the trim plugin gain on mix tracks so the faders sit at zero. It seems like a good idea, but it takes too long for me. Also, often the editors volume goes above +6dB which is the gain plug in limit. Which brings me to what mode I do mix in.

Touch-Trim.

Faders do not jump around in trim mode and I have the ability to adjust on the fly without writing though a selection or wiping out automation further down the timeline. Sometimes there are issues due to the editor drawing in straight vertical volume curves. This only happens when the curve is over audio. If that happen, I just redraw the volume curve.

I also will make a global adjustment to the volume automation of an editors tracks, if it is too low or too hot for the particular mixing level. Too many editors do not cut in calibrated rooms, or if they do, often it is at 85dB which makes everything to low for my tv ref of 80dB. So I select all, boost or attenuate and listen against the pre-mixed dialogue. Just a small section to rough in the tracks. When it comes to mixing backgrounds I use:

Latch-Trim

Often the editor has made some volume adjustments to the backgrounds, which I try to implement to save time. I highlight the entire scene on the BG tracks and go into Latch-Trim. I make my adjustments for the scene within the first 10-20 seconds of the scene and then hit manual write to selection. This trims the levels for the scene quickly and often is all I have time to do to the BGs. On my second pass, I mix with group sub-masters as the bg tracks have already been "pre-mixed".

I have been mixing like this for all of the Sci Fi channel shows I do, making new technique adjustments as I go along. Speed is king for these shows.

Of course, I wish I had real time and real budgets to properly pre-dub the various elements, but that is not going to happen. My biggest regret is never being able to pre-dub foley. Unfortunately, here in L.A., the foley editor position often is an entry level job into sound editing on these types of shows. It is because of this that I wish I had time to pre-dub the foley. Instead, I group the feet, props and cloth separately, global adjust the levels for the show against dialogue, and mix with the grouped faders, stopping to fine tune only when something is missing or sticking out too much.

Such is mixing a 2 hour, 130 track, action Sci Fi television show in four days.

[1150Post]

hiring me, might save you money...wait, i am under-valued!

you're not mixing in one take? what's the problem??? you can SEE the amplitude in the Waveform! i mix by eye! you should see how good my mixes look! and, don't you just use a lot of compressors and limiters to get a hold of the dynamics??? plus, i am usually so drunk by the second round that it doesn't matter.

ok, maybe it is because i didn't learn how to post thoroughly and exclusively on a console, and, i don't currently work on one. but i am not a one take wonder. yet, i can mix pretty fast. most 30 minute TV stuff is done in a 10 hour day - 2 if there are a lot of fx.

i used to go into write mode for plug-in automation passes, and then hit write to end. wouldn't it be useful in that situation? though, now i use snapshot more often than not.

as for volume, i write in a pass -- but will abort or re-write if i am unhappy. then, to adjust i will use the mouse or key commands to fine tune what i did. i'll rough in the dialog and then tweak the moves with a mouse and keyboard moves. once that and the fx are solid, i can often get the music really close in on or 2 passes. then, my moves are usually quickly adjusted with the mouse. i had a VO the other day that was so consistent, i didn't need to write a pass. i just made a some minor adjustments on a few regions and some phrases and words.

Well, its funny... depending on how wide the show is and how tight the budget, we often only get to the end once (albeit with a LOT of stopping and rewinding!). The 2nd pass is with the client, and often going straight to tape!

For LM100 stuff, which fortunately I don't do too much of, I usually do a VO/Sync/Ambience pass, then bring the rest of the stuff up on the second pass.

I generally EQ VO, Dialogue, and MFX/SFX during the design phase (option-apple-/ through an interview, and then go find everywhere else the dude is and drop the same EQ). In fact, I'm a "The Mix Happens During The Design" Disciple. If I get to design a show I'm mixing, I can crank it out during the mix super fast due to the fact that I'm familiar with the show, I've built it to assemble well under the faders, and I've built it so its organized and prepped for the task. I also find that getting the voices and music into shape during the build allows me to choose design elements that compliment (or hide) the timbre of the show defined by the primary elements. It also lets me know whether I can polish it quickly to get it done, or to let the client know I'll need to go and get the roll of 2 ply polisher and schedule a longer mix session. Basically, it helps me to stay on the client's budget, or be able to forecast overages and have examples ready to show them why before we actually go "over".

Working this way, I would love to see right click access on the timeline to access the AudioSuite plugin options. Highlight a selection, right click, pull out your selected plug (usually a trim plug for me to bring up low level stuff), process, voila! Audiosuite with handles would also be awesome. Actually, it wouldn't be awesome.... its a requirement!

Additionally, when working with small surfaces, like my Command 8 or AlphaTrack single fader, being able to click on a track and select "scroll to" (like when you right click on the track name) and have the controller scroll fader 1 to that track WITHOUT having the edit window scroll is also almost a requirement. I want to right click on tracks WHILE I'm mixing (transport rolling) and have that track on fader 1 but NOT have everything above of that scroll of screen or out of sight. It could be a pref for those that prefer otherwise.

I'm also down with a keyboard selection for edit automation with audio, or not, as you expressed in another thread.

But I digress.

I tried to give you a call the other week, but apparently someone screwed up and let you go OUT to lunch.... How did that happen? I'll try again soon. Would love to chat.

Cheers!

[Brandonx1]

i thought i would start a bit of a public disussion of this preference before i submitted a feature Request.

currently, you can swith to :
Touch
Latch
or
No Change.


thanks!

And while we're at it, why not touch-latch or touch-trim?? Both of these modes are for adjusting after automation is written.
Peace,
Brandon

[minister]

hey eric l! ja, what you say is interesting. yes, learning other ways to speed up our workflow -- if you never had a mixing sargeant shouting over your shoulder what to do. i will look into your way as well... when i have some practice time.

brad:

i know what you mean about laying out your own tracks, i often do that. so, yes, i can mix faster. with snapshot, i can go through DX and VO really fast if i have to. i set a good operating volume, then setup some presets (or not) and zip through the track (often in auto off) in far less than real time. switch to read, then adjust with the mouse and keyboard shortcuts as i listen. sometimes i will stop and loop a section again if i need to re-eq, or ride the eq for movement etc. more often than not, my ear will tell me what i need and i can make the adjustment with the mouse for the 2dB reduction in HMF for that phrase, or the 3dB boost i need in volume for the end of that sentence. so my adjustmens are fast.

the audiosuite menu might be nice for a lot things... but for me it would only be occasional.

i usually can get through a show 2 or 3 times before the client shows. and then it is usually one slow pass with the client and then one check. depends.

I tried to give you a call the other week, but apparently someone screwed up and let you go OUT to lunch.... How did that happen? I'll try again soon. Would love to chat.

ja, i know, i slipped out ever so briefly, then had to hit again : last 2 weeks were crazy with a feature re-mix, a 90 min. doc and then a new TV series (which meant extra time). so i couldn't talk last week.

got time tomorrow or thursday? i'll give ya a shout! wednesday i have pesky clients and friday i got a plateful.

[minister]

And while we're at it, why not touch-latch or touch-trim?? Both of these modes are for adjusting after automation is written.
Peace,
Brandon

seems like we could have all the options for us idiots who want to do it unconventionally.