More Midi Timing Issues in 8.1.1

[synth999]

Checked all posts and followed all the supposed fixes with no results. I have a big session with lots of plugs but it seems to me that something as simple as midi ( my commodore 64 had better timing than PT HD ) would at least playback in time. With ADC on its WAY early and about 500 samples late if ADC is off. I have set the global midi offset to compensate by recording the audio and determining the amount of offset required. No, its not the PC or my Drivers
( Nuendo Works perfect! However, I did pay $75 to have someone tell Nuendo is the problem and to Uninstall it.) In fact I have clean install on a fresh drive with nothing but PT and the OS for testing. I have dealt with it and was hoping after installing 8.1.1 it would work. Hasn't.I have no time to switch to 9 in the near future as I have projects to finish an can not deal with installing and new OS, tons of plugs and Instruments. I even bought the Midi I/O with "midi timestamp" and still no luck. I put a ton of $ into this system an have had terrible support. I mean $10+k isn't enough for continued support? I'd expect that from a toaster company, actually their support is better. I even have to use a lynx aes 16 card for nuendo since the digi asio driver is such a pile. WTF! these are supposed to be "Pro Tools" and the basics don't work?

[Fullsound Recording]

I know man, This sux, I have to move all midi files after they are recorded back to match, The only thing is they are all off by different amounts not the same. The midi world in PT any version is so lacking its not worth the time, I just use Nuendo then export the tracks and Import them to PT. Its just a pisser man.

[synth999]

That's why people use Nuendo and others. Most producers/writers I know use two DAW's because they only use PT out of necessity. The midi in PT seems OK until you start to really do something(plugs,elastic) with the project. Another trick I do is to bounce the entire track to a stereo mix if I need to add midi or overdubs because PT also has a problem with ADC and recording audio. If I have lots of plugs, rtas ,elastic audio or master bus inserts the ADC shifts the audio seemingly at random. Again, since 2003 Nuendo has been flawless with ADC and midi. You should not have to worry about or compensate for the basic functions of a Pro System. I get clients that ask me about what they are doing wrong because their midi is out of time and I tell them what everyone told me, you need to buy another program. C'mon AVID make it work. I RELLY want to like it, but feel like I'm stuck using it because every indie artist in the world can now say they own a Pro Tools rig. Yea. How many of you guys get LE or M powered projects from good talent with all the Audio (timing) a total mess?

[DigiTechSupt]

Without specifics it'll be very difficult to help you. What is your workflow, exactly? What keyboard are you using? How is it connected (USB or through the MIDI IO?)? What's your buffer size? Are you using VI's? Which ones specifically? Are ALL installed plug-ins the minimum version listed in our compatibility grid?

The more detail you can provide, the easier it will be to get specific about the problems you're having.

[synth999]

Thanks for the response, I am sorry for the rants but this is seriously driving me crazy. I typically use a Novation remote 61sl as a controller via usb. Midi in is not a problem since I can quantize if i need to. Output is a problem with both the the digi midi i/o and novation. I don't really use VI's in PT, I do that work in Nuendo. most of my current work in PT is Piano/Organ and I use hardware synths and usually do a pass with the performance and another to overdub drawbar movements and volume swells, I have tried thinning controller data and eliminating it for testing purposes. I am using lynx converters with lt hd cards. These supposedly report the same latency as 192's. I have a bunch of wrapped vst fx in the plugins folder some of which are not on the compatibility list but rarely used and not inserted in this session. Most of the plugs I use in PT are digirack and current waves stuff. My h/w buffer is at 256 the dae buffer = level 2 and cache = normal. I use this config most of the time unless I have real time elastic,high track count an many plugs.
I just recorded 1/4 notes as a test using a piano sound, quantized and then recorded audio in with 470 samples of latency with or w/o adc on. Shouldn't the hardware (converter) latency be calculated and audio placed in time? Checked that box in I/O setup. bounced to disk with adc on and increased that by 10 samples.
If I use elastic to tighten drum and guitars every thing gets moved to the beat and I have to manually adjust any new audio for vocals, ect.
This test was done with no plugs and just a click track all other tracks in this session are inactive. When I activate all the tracks and plugs I have big problems. Midi is out of time and if I bounce with adc ( stereo mix ) it places it like 4000 sample AHEAD of the beat. Same problem with midi it plays early with adc on. I also have buses setup for fx and gtrs and drums and know that was an issue in the past with adc. I am trying things out as I write this and just discovered the issue with midi playback is with the long delay comp. engine. Midi is now in time with the short comp. engine and all tracks and plugs active. Did a stereo bounce of the track with the short engine and had PT place it in a new track. This was still placed early.

[Fullsound Recording]

Here is my set up,

An s90es via USB midi or a S80 via a midi sport via USB PT8.8.1
I Record a Midi track and a analog track from the s90es at the same time,
I then go and re strike that midi track back to the keyboard for a replacment track, Same sound.

Now that new piano analog track is off by a long ways like 4000 to 10000 samples. as well in some cases its before the old analog track and in some maybe it's post it.

Now these are the only tracks no VI no other tracks no plug ins just a recorder in its most basic form.

If i do this same thing in Nuendo , Cake walk or DP no problems. Allways come up on the spot.

[DigiTechSupt]

Excellent (the reports, not the fact that you're having problems...that sucks.)! I'm going to take a look at this as soon as I can.

[synth999]

Thanks, I see some folks here using PT 9 that have similar problems with bounced tracks shifting early.

[synth999]

Latency/Delay Comp. Issues?

I did record a loop out of aurora 8 analog out back to analog in. It is in 16 ch mode ( one 192 shows up). The new track that is recorded is placed 250 samples early! This is with an overloaded delay compensation engine ( lots of plugs), aux buses and inserts on the master fader. I recorded again with delay compensation off and plugs inactive I get 126 samples of latency. Anyone else seeing this? Help!

[DigiTechSupt]

Originally Posted by synth999

Latency/Delay Comp. Issues?

I did record a loop out of aurora 8 analog out back to analog in. It is in 16 ch mode ( one 192 shows up). The new track that is recorded is placed 250 samples early! This is with an overloaded delay compensation engine ( lots of plugs), aux buses and inserts on the master fader. I recorded again with delay compensation off and plugs inactive I get 126 samples of latency. Anyone else seeing this? Help!

Remember that plug-ins on the Master Fader are not compensated for. I bet if you remove those plug-ins from the MF, it'll work properly.