11R Tube Power Amp/Speaker Cab vs. Full Range Powered Monitor

[Barry Johns]

I see some folks out there recommend a couple of different full range powered monitors to use with their Eleven Rack. Since this unit is so unique, I wonder if the typical thinking is best with it. I have my own thoughts about this question, but curious to see what others think.

Which is going to provide the best tone results from the Eleven Rack?

a. Tube Power Amp-Eleven Rack-2x12 or better

b. Powered Full Range Monitor

Traditional thinking would be (a), but the 11R is far from traditional.

[Hotcrazyfruit]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

I see some folks out there recommend a couple of different full range powered monitors to use with their Eleven Rack. Since this unit is so unique, I wonder if the typical thinking is best with it. I have my own thoughts about this question, but curious to see what others think.

Which is going to provide the best tone results from the Eleven Rack?

a. Tube Power Amp-Eleven Rack-2x12 or better

b. Powered Full Range Monitor

Traditional thinking would be (a), but the 11R is far from traditional.

I have tried using my marshalls power amp section and cab as a form of loud speaker, but to be honest it sounded like garbage (weather that was the doing of myself or the setup, I have no idea). It was un-usably noisy. But sounds fantastic through my monitors

There are users who use the K-series from QSC

Nick

[Sofus]

as always it depends ...

for me, frfr all the way. i have the same sound and respons from studio monitors and stage monitors. i got decent results with a power amp and guitar cab, but i think this approach doesn't sound as natural as the frfr monitors.

one thing that has been a fight with myself is to get used to having a "recorded tone" over "amp in the room". when using frfr i usually explain it to others as playing behinde the console in a studio, it took some time to get used to for me.

[Vhoot]

I'm curious about the Kustom KPC12MP (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...ource=3WWRWXGB).
This guys is having a descent success with his axe fx and it is only $119, too hard to believe.
Check out these videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GvlgT3myiI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bURsElilGMw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqLFicVMBd4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQaALt0Hzlc

[DAR Fritz]

I've been using the Alto TS112a and so far they work pretty good plus they were inexpensive. I bought them at a Guitar Center store but I don't see them on their site. They may not be the best FRFR speakers out there but they work for me.

As with any FRFR speakers try and test them out before you buy.

Good luck!

Fritz

[Hotcrazyfruit]

Originally Posted by DAR Fritz

I've been using the Alto TS112a and so far they work pretty good plus they were inexpensive. I bought them at a Guitar Center store but I don't see them on their site. They may not be the best FRFR speakers out there but they work for me.

As with any FRFR speakers try and test them out before you buy.

Good luck!

Fritz

how much were they? quite curious actually

Nick

[TieDyedDevil]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

I see some folks out there recommend a couple of different full range powered monitors to use with their Eleven Rack. Since this unit is so unique, I wonder if the typical thinking is best with it. I have my own thoughts about this question, but curious to see what others think.

Which is going to provide the best tone results from the Eleven Rack?

a. Tube Power Amp-Eleven Rack-2x12 or better

b. Powered Full Range Monitor

Traditional thinking would be (a), but the 11R is far from traditional.

Traditional? <scratches head> Not in my world...

Look at it this way. The ER is designed to create great guitar tones for both live and direct-recording use.

Let's concentrate on direct-recording for a moment. You track with the ER, mix down, and play the mix through a good pair of monitors or headphones. As you listen, the ER guitar tracks sound just like a well-recorded amp (as they should)...

What happens if you run that same mix through a tube guitar amp and a 2x12? Doesn't sound right, does it...?


Here's another way of thinking about this...

You know that different guitar speakers make huge difference in the way a guitar amp sounds. That's because different speakers color the sound in their own way.

So lets say you have Celestion C30s in your 2x12... You turn off the cab emulation in the ER, dial up a Boogie patch, and... it sounds great. Just like you'd expect a Boogie to sound through C30s.

What happens, then, if you want to get get the sound of a Fender Twin through Jensen speakers? How do you set the ER to make your C30 2x12 sound like an open-back cab with a pair of Jensens? Dial in the Fender cab on the ER? Nope, that sounds like a mic'd Fender cab being played back through your C30 cab (reference the above re: playing a mixed track through your C30 cab).

So the short answer is: if you're really happy with your guitar cab and that's all you ever want to play through, go ahead. Just realize that you're sacrificing a lot of what the ER can do. (Also, your tube power amp is going to add its own coloration; you may end up thinking that your models sound a bit mushy if you push the tube amp...)

[Jay_uk]

Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil

Traditional? <scratches head> Not in my world...

Look at it this way. The ER is designed to create great guitar tones for both live and direct-recording use.

Let's concentrate on direct-recording for a moment. You track with the ER, mix down, and play the mix through a good pair of monitors or headphones. As you listen, the ER guitar tracks sound just like a well-recorded amp (as they should)...

What happens if you run that same mix through a tube guitar amp and a 2x12? Doesn't sound right, does it...?


Here's another way of thinking about this...

You know that different guitar speakers make huge difference in the way a guitar amp sounds. That's because different speakers color the sound in their own way.

So lets say you have Celestion C30s in your 2x12... You turn off the cab emulation in the ER, dial up a Boogie patch, and... it sounds great. Just like you'd expect a Boogie to sound through C30s.

What happens, then, if you want to get get the sound of a Fender Twin through Jensen speakers? How do you set the ER to make your C30 2x12 sound like an open-back cab with a pair of Jensens? Dial in the Fender cab on the ER? Nope, that sounds like a mic'd Fender cab being played back through your C30 cab (reference the above re: playing a mixed track through your C30 cab).

So the short answer is: if you're really happy with your guitar cab and that's all you ever want to play through, go ahead. Just realize that you're sacrificing a lot of what the ER can do. (Also, your tube power amp is going to add its own coloration; you may end up thinking that your models sound a bit mushy if you push the tube amp...)

My 11r has not arrived yet, so i cant experiment. I have a Palmer pd-03 (it has cab emulation) and i,ve been thinking about where to place it for best results.
Option available are..
11r straight to Pro Tools
11r with tube amp (has simple effects loop no control)
11r with SS amp (has simple effects loop no control)

Where do you think i would get the best results ?

Cheers
Jay

[TieDyedDevil]

Originally Posted by Jay_uk

My 11r has not arrived yet, so i cant experiment. I have a Palmer pd-03 (it has cab emulation) and i,ve been thinking about where to place it for best results.
Option available are..
11r straight to Pro Tools
11r with tube amp (has simple effects loop no control)
11r with SS amp (has simple effects loop no control)

Where do you think i would get the best results ?

Cheers
Jay

Could you explain a bit more? I don't understand what you're trying to ask...

[Jay_uk]

Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil

Could you explain a bit more? I don't understand what you're trying to ask...

First thanks for replying.
Well i,m not sure myself if i should be useing it with an 11r set up,
I,ve been using it purely as a power soak on my tube amp. Its a power soak/ combined speaker simulator, i just listed my gear to give an idea.
No need to give it too much attention "Tie", i dont wish to go off topic.
When i get the 11r i,ll try putting the Palmer in the SS amp head effects loop
and see what it sounds like.

Cheers
Jay