Eleven Rack SPDIF

[Darryl Ramm]

Lets try to start over. I have never seen this problem, and since lots of others are not complaining exactly about it I doubt it is that common.

What exactly happens in say a situation where the internal and external clock can't hold phase lock is up to the designer. Most of these systems will revert to the internal clock and then you start getting pops and clicks. I don't know what S/PDIF interface chip the Eleven Rack uses, but on modern interface chips detecting losing PPL to the external clock is say communicated via status registers over an I2C bus so often not something you can just look at with a logic probe on a pin, it takes a bit more gear and work. I suspect you really don't have external lock and the interface has failed over to the internal clock. There is usually not much complexity in the software stack that would flag this happening, it typically going to read that that status and the hardware likely has already switched clock to internal. So my first guesses are (if the external clock drives other things OK) if you are getting a no lock error then you really are clocking from the internal clock, and maybe just lucky not to be popping and clicking. I'd guess more likely hardware faults on the S/PDIF receiver circuitry, it's external filter/PLL loop components or the local clock circuit.... all in the not worth it for most people to try to debug/fix category.

I actually thought DJ Bechara was asking for a response from Avid "Can someone inspect this". I'm not even sure exactly what inspect means here, but I took it as a request for Avid support folks to try to look at the problem.

I suspect if you want to solicit if other people are having this problem you should post a new clear thread with a clear title that describes the problem clearly. Most people will only scan a post's title. And have some backup list of what testing you have done (even if we all might agree that's irrelevant, that will keep the thread on track/avoid suggestion posts).

Nobody here can guess any poster's expertiseor exactly what trouble shooting they have done.

As a suggestion those (possibly useful/possibly not) things to try troubleshooting and make clear you have in that thread are:

o Done a memory reset of the Eleven Rack
o Tried different clock rates (which ones?)
o Reproduced the problem with a different clock source
o Testing using a digital/video RCA cable
o Tried using a AES/EBU clock signal
o Tried using the Eleven Rack to lock the external source/device if possible
o Confirmed this is not rev E unit (last letter of the serial number. I have no reason to believe this is anything related to the previous know clocking problem affecting those units, but you want to check anyhow and stop the thread going down that track.).
o Test with and without USB cable connected to the Eleven Rack (to make sure this is not a problem introduced by the Eleven Rack driver control software taking over the clock rate settings)
o (especially if you can't try AES/EBU) try all the usual ground loop/hum tricks. Lifting Power supply ground, trying both boxes on the same (properly grounded) outlet, etc. Try an opto-isolate/extender if you happen to have one. I've seen some weird digital problems caused by ground loops.

And anybody handy with electronics with access to a good oscilloscope (maybe with I2C decoder) with and/or frequency counter could try some other things but they would need to be seriously curious, because again, these units are so cheap it's not worth spending a lot or time on that. And I mean cheap not as a slam, they are a bargain, by all means buy more than one... they are just not worth sending off to have hardware repaired.

And finally I personally do expect vendors to provide some level of support through their public forums, and Avid does some here thanks to the efforts of a small number of really helpful employees. Avid used to provide really great support for the Eleven Rack, well beyond the norm, but that when Chris Townsend and others were at Avid. But in this case, unless there really are lots of units failing I'd not expect Avid to provide specific assistance.

[Becharax]

Goobs ... let me know if you sort it out ! will be glad to hear your feedback because I tried a lot of things also that did not work

[Becharax]

Any Update ?

[Goobs]

Sorry, this all got put on hold due to me having to replace my machine. Long story. I'm all set with the computer now.

I have not resolved this. The reason I haven't been losing sleep over it is simply because I know for a fact that the Eleven Rack is indeed locking to the outside clock, despite what the System Setting panel says.

I still have a Pro Tools 8 LE secondary rig set-up with a 002 being run on Snow Leopard that I use for mobile recording occasionally. I tried hooking the Eleven Rack up to that rig just to see if the issue was consistent across various OSs and versions of Pro Tools. Sure enough, as I predicted, the issue is invisible on the other rig, which leads me to believe that my hypothesis is correct that this is some type of bug with the newest Eleven Rack driver.

My first hunch that the driver was the culprit here is the fact that within the Audio/MIDI Setup application, the Eleven Rack is the only device I've ever seen that doesn't show up with a "category" (FireWire, USB, etc.) or an icon associated with it. It's simply blank in the second field, and blank where the USB icon is supposed to show up... which is quite enigmatic.

This is not specific to my iMac, either. I have a mid-2012 MacBook Air with macOS Sierra installed on which I tested, and it experiences the same symptoms as the iMac.

The Eleven Rack will even successfully clock externally through S/PDIF, slaved through the 003, and lock to my Apogee Quartet, which I have attached to the 003 via Word Clock BNC. No love from the control panel though.

I have a good amount of confidence that this is not a fluke, nor specific to my Eleven Rack. I'm just hoping that there are enough other people out there who have this specific combination of gear and OS to prompt Avid to perhaps update the driver. I don't have particularly high hopes though, as I'd guess that the number of people who are using Pro Tools with macOS Sierra (specifically with an Eleven Rack being used *not* as the main interface, but rather having its output AND master clock run via S/PDIF,) is dwindling.

If anyone who is reading this has this setup and is *not* experiencing any of the above symptoms, please correct me.

[Becharax]

I second your reply ! Couldn't be said otherwise !

[Barry Johns]

Originally Posted by Goobs

Sorry, this all got put on hold due to me having to replace my machine. Long story. I'm all set with the computer now.

I have not resolved this. The reason I haven't been losing sleep over it is simply because I know for a fact that the Eleven Rack is indeed locking to the outside clock, despite what the System Setting panel says.

I still have a Pro Tools 8 LE secondary rig set-up with a 002 being run on Snow Leopard that I use for mobile recording occasionally. I tried hooking the Eleven Rack up to that rig just to see if the issue was consistent across various OSs and versions of Pro Tools. Sure enough, as I predicted, the issue is invisible on the other rig, which leads me to believe that my hypothesis is correct that this is some type of bug with the newest Eleven Rack driver.

My first hunch that the driver was the culprit here is the fact that within the Audio/MIDI Setup application, the Eleven Rack is the only device I've ever seen that doesn't show up with a "category" (FireWire, USB, etc.) or an icon associated with it. It's simply blank in the second field, and blank where the USB icon is supposed to show up... which is quite enigmatic.

This is not specific to my iMac, either. I have a mid-2012 MacBook Air with macOS Sierra installed on which I tested, and it experiences the same symptoms as the iMac.

The Eleven Rack will even successfully clock externally through S/PDIF, slaved through the 003, and lock to my Apogee Quartet, which I have attached to the 003 via Word Clock BNC. No love from the control panel though.

I have a good amount of confidence that this is not a fluke, nor specific to my Eleven Rack. I'm just hoping that there are enough other people out there who have this specific combination of gear and OS to prompt Avid to perhaps update the driver. I don't have particularly high hopes though, as I'd guess that the number of people who are using Pro Tools with macOS Sierra (specifically with an Eleven Rack being used *not* as the main interface, but rather having its output AND master clock run via S/PDIF,) is dwindling.

If anyone who is reading this has this setup and is *not* experiencing any of the above symptoms, please correct me.

I thought I already spoke to this earlier. It "IS" a problem with your 11 Rack. There is no cost effective repair option.

Avid replaced mine for free without admitting flat. I've seen others have the same problem without an Avid solution.

You have two choices, buy another 11Rack, and/or see if Avid will replace yours.

[Becharax]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

I thought I already spoke to this earlier. It "IS" a problem with your 11 Rack. There is no cost effective repair option.

Avid replaced mine for free without admitting flat. I've seen others have the same problem without an Avid solution.

You have two choices, buy another 11Rack, and/or see if Avid will replace yours.

Barry !! the rack is syncing perfectly mate !! you're one of the guys who go by the book ? if you read a message then the rack is trashy ?? Trust your ears ..

[Barry Johns]

Originally Posted by DJ Bechara

Barry !! the rack is syncing perfectly mate !! you're one of the guys who go by the book ? if you read a message then the rack is trashy ?? Trust your ears ..

I'm not exactly following what you're saying, but I did go back and re-read the thread and I did not read it right the first time. My advice is not relevant in this situation.

[Becharax]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

I'm not exactly following what you're saying, but I did go back and re-read the thread and I did not read it right the first time. My advice is not relevant in this situation.

No Problem ! :)

[Goobs]

Just a small anecdotal detail to add: the Eleven Rack System Preference is the only entity that claims there to be an external clock issue. Everything else (i.e. the Sound control panel, the Audio/MIDI Setup, the 003 control panel, within Pro Tools itself, my ears, etc.) points to it working as intended. It's almost as if the Eleven Rack control panel is too embarrassed to admit that it's actually accepting an external work clock.

Also, the Audio/MIDI Setup is saying that the Eleven Rack's converters are using 32-bit integer, which I'm fairly sure is incorrect.