Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools 2020

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:51 AM
Gabe S. Gabe S. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Castle Rock
Posts: 2
Default PT uses Backup drive audio instead of project drive

Hi.

(I've submitted a tech ticket, but figured I'd ask here.)

I have a backup drive that clones my project drive every night. I use SuperDuper to Smart Update the drive so the backup drive is an exact match of the project drive. Once this backup has been done, a strange issue appears when I am working on the project again the next day. If the backup drive is mounted, when I launch a session on the project drive, ProTools will use the audio in the Audio Files folder on the BACKUP drive instead of the audio in the Audio Files folder on the project drive.

How do I know this? Quite often I'll find problems like pops and clicks or other noises in audio files. The flow of work that I use is to go to the Audio Files folder on the project drive, open the offending audio file in Izotope RX, fix the audio problem, save the file, close the Pro Tools session and then re-open it. Once the Pro Tools session re-opens, it recognizes the changes to the file and I move on. However, after my backup system was in place (which is an SSD in a BlackMagic Designs box), I encountered a problem. After going through my normal steps to fix an audio issue like a click/pop in the recording, I re-opened the Pro Tools session and the click/pop was still there. When I checked the file in the Audio Files folder on the project drive, the click/pop was not there. I was like, wuuuuuut? I discovered that Pro Tools was looking at the backup drive for the audio. I was for sure using the Pro Tools session file that was on the project drive. I couldn't seem to force Pro Tools to look at the project drive Audio Files folder, so I quit Pro Tools and unmounted the Backup drive. Once I relaunched Pro Tools and opened the session, it looked in the correct place for the audio files and the audio I had fixed was now being used in the session.

This happens all the time. So, now I can't have my backup drive mounted while I work on Pro Tools......the danger being that sometimes I don't remember to re-mount the backup drive at the end of the day and the audio/sessions don't get backed up that night. Not good.

I have a 28-core Mac Pro running 10.15.2. Pro Tools Ultimate 2020.9.

Anyone else see anything like this?

Cheers.
-gabe
__________________
Computer: 2019 Mac Pro 28-core 2.5gHz, OS 10.15.2, 96GB ram, all SSD drives, MH Labs ULN-8, MOTU MidiTimepiece AV, Pro Tools Ultimate 2020.9
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:25 AM
Sonopolis Sonopolis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Berlin
Posts: 299
Default Re: PT uses Backup drive audio instead of project drive

Strange, what does the Disk Allocation window say?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:33 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
Posts: 18,162
Default Re: PT uses Backup drive audio instead of project drive

Should never run with a backup drive mounted or even powered on all the time. That's why they're called backup drives - so that when things go south you have an independent way of recovering.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-16-2021, 01:17 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 14,862
Default Re: PT uses Backup drive audio instead of project drive

Several things maybe don’t seem great here. Backups left mounted, they should be unmounted as Jack said, or even better maybe physically detached (less chance of an electrical hit, maybe less chance of theft or building loss). And it sounds like there is only one backup, if so that is a recipe for disaster. A likely time for your primary drive to fail is while you are backing it up... now you may have a messed up source drive/files and a messed up backup drive/files. You should be rotating through a sequence of backup drives. Including having some physical copies off site or in the cloud.

But the most likely cause of data loss nowadays is not drive failure or software bugs but human error, and the chance of that is greatly exacerbated by leaving backups mounted on the source system.

I am not sure how helpful Avid support will be here. Pro Tools should not just relink files so I would be looking very carefully at what is going on. Making sure files are actually where you think they are, there are no session files or directories that are symbolic links etc. That all the drives on the system are actually mounted on directories you expect them to be (that one can really throw a curve ball) etc. etc. And the easiest way to pick up content files from the wrong drive is to actually be opening the session file on that drive. Double check you are not doing that. Are all the sessions clean with all content in the session directory? If not then clean that up now.

Close cases of behavior I have seen like this happen when people have in the past import content off the backup drive without copying.. they may not even realize they are... they run import and don’t notice the source drive... now some content is only actually on the backup drive and never really gets backed up again. And then maybe they copy that session session again or do a Save In... so maybe that new sessions content is or is not where you expect. It does not sound like that exactly is happening here but it is very easy to mess stuff up like I described... and another very good reason not to leave backups mounted online

Many more folks here run Carbon Copy Cloner than SuperDuper, so not sure how much insight related to that you might get here. I assume your signature is correct and you are on Catalina and not Big Sur. Is the drive you are cloning APFS? And you are cloning to APFS? Are there any errors in the SuperDuper log files? You say project drive so to be clear it is not the boot drive? I would maybe be testing running sessions off some spare space on the boot drive or cloning or manually copying session folders to a scratch space on the backup drive to see if that helps debug what is going on, including renaming/moving the source folder... do all this with test copies. I expect you will need to sort this out yourself more than Avid support will be able to help.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 01-16-2021 at 01:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-17-2021, 10:07 AM
Gabe S. Gabe S. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Castle Rock
Posts: 2
Default Re: PT uses Backup drive audio instead of project drive

Really appreciate the feedback. I've been launching sessions this AM with the backup drive mounted and.....sigh....it's working fine at the moment....of course, right?

I have BackBlaze online backup as another backup.

Files are definitely where I think they are. And the sessions are where they are supposed to be. I've been using PT since 1998, so I have my procedures down which I adhere to.

Sessions are super clean. I start from a Stationary Pad template session. I copy the files I want into the Audio Files folder and then import them into there session using File-->Import>Audio. (My files are all stereo and PT always seems to split them unless I bring in files this way.)

Yes, my project drive is its own drive. It's a 4TB NVME drive on a PCI card.

The audio files don't exist on the backup drive before it's imported into the session. The audio exists on another drive that is a production drive. The production drive is another 4TB NVME drive on a PCI card. Again, I do these kinds of things to be redundant---making sure that things are copied into an Audio Files folder before they end up in ProTools.

Yes, I'm on 10.15.2 Catalina. Thinking about going to 10.15.7 and getting the latest PT. I hate upgrading OSes. Something always breaks......

The Project drive is Mac OS Extended (Journaled) and the back up drive is APFS. Wonder if that's an issue.

Anyway, I'll keep digging. Thanks again.
__________________
Computer: 2019 Mac Pro 28-core 2.5gHz, OS 10.15.2, 96GB ram, all SSD drives, MH Labs ULN-8, MOTU MidiTimepiece AV, Pro Tools Ultimate 2020.9
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-18-2021, 09:15 AM
Rich Breen Rich Breen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Burbank, CA USA
Posts: 1,885
Default Re: PT uses Backup drive audio instead of project drive

1. Backup drives should only be mounted when backing up (personally, I use TinkerTool to suppress mounting backup drives at startup and a script to mount them and run the backups at EOD).

2. Always a good idea to keep an eye on Disk Allocation.
__________________
http://www.richbreen.com

----------------------------------------
MacPro 5,1 Dual Hex, OS 10.14, PT 2020 HDX, Avid HD I/Os and Metric Halo ULN8, Avid C24, 3xS1/Dock.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-18-2021, 09:43 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 20,768
Default Re: PT uses Backup drive audio instead of project drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe S. View Post
Yes, I'm on 10.15.2 Catalina. Thinking about going to 10.15.7 and getting the latest PT. I hate upgrading OSes. Something always breaks......
The most important question here is HOW have you installed your Catalina? PT needs a clean install, meaning emptying your storage and installing from zero to hero, not using any migration or restore apps anywhere but doing it all manually.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-18-2021, 11:46 AM
Top Jimmy's Avatar
Top Jimmy Top Jimmy is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 5,428
Default Re: PT uses Backup drive audio instead of project drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe S. View Post
Anyway, I'll keep digging. Thanks again.
One way your issue can happen that I haven’t seen mentioned yet is copying the session and working on the copy while leaving the original file paths intact. Perhaps you created the session on the backup drive unintentionally and when you realized it, you copied the session folder over to the main drive thinking that was all that was necessary. The problem is, if the original paths and allocation are still valid, that’s where everything goes even when opening the copy on a different drive. Pro Tools only defaults to the local folder if it sees the allocation in the session is invalid
__________________
James Cadwallader

Hackintosh - Gigabyte Z77X-UP5TH, Intel Core i7-3770K, 32GB 1600Mhz DDR3, 2x SATA 6Gb/s 240GB SSD, 3x SATA 6Gb/s 1TB HDD, 1x Glyph 2TB USB3 HDD, Mojave 10.14.4.

Pro Tools Ultimate 2020.12, HD Native, Focusrite Red 8Pre (Mac)
Pro Tools 2020.12, Mbox3 (Win)

Presonus Faderport, Pro Tools | Control
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
recording drive as backup drive question amoretam macOS 8 07-18-2012 02:12 PM
External Drive (Enclosure and Drive Build) and Backup Help JCWarrior 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 0 04-16-2008 09:18 AM
Valid Audio Drive (hard drive issue) MacPro / HD3 owenpop Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 5 01-11-2008 01:28 PM
Formatting Audio Drive on ProTool Project Nubus houseofrecords Digidesign Hardware & Software 2 07-23-2001 04:27 PM
Hard Drive Performance Dual Processors and Dedicated Audio Drive j_jayzatuc 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 4 08-03-2000 06:52 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:23 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com