Sample Rate and H/W Buffer negotiation woes.

[Sheldon Cooper]

Originally Posted by hjorte

What about RME interfaces like the Babyface? Surely someone has one and using Windows. With the reputation of RME, it's the one company I would think has this sorted.

Probably RME works just fine!

[hjorte]

I guess I'll have to ask RME users in dedicated thread to have them chime in. They won't be looking here if they don't have the problem.

[Joe.LoDuca]

I noticed this thread. I have been using RME audio from PT9-11 with absolutely no troubles at all.. I just as of last week decided to get a Presonus 24.4.2 studio live to gain some more I/O. and well my I/O was reduced to ZERO!! This AVID stuff has a VERY SMALL list of 3rd party things that work with it. I am trying to come up with fixes for this but the only thing that comes to mind is hopping off the AVID train and going to some other software. I remember opening up support cases on PT9 of which they could not get pt9 to work with focusrite. So based on the fact that this issue has been in place now for 3 solid versions tells me that it aint ever going to get fixed..

[hjorte]

Originally Posted by Joe.LoDuca

I noticed this thread. I have been using RME audio from PT9-11 with absolutely no troubles at all..

Just making sure here...

Originally Posted by hjorte

This post is primarily for PT 11 users on Windows using 3rd party USB interfaces.

1. Can you change H/W Buffer Size from within PT without the need to quit PT?
2. Can you switch between sessions with varying odd sample rates from within PT without PT either locking up, refusing to play, or the need to quit PT? I am specifically talking about switching between 44K1<>96K, 44.1K<>48K and 48K<>88K sample rates.
3. Which audio interface did you use for these questions?

So your answer to the above is Yes (to Windows), Yes, Yes and RME?

[hjorte]

Let's go back in time. How about 4 years... Here's Nikki, my old beta testing buddy from back in the day:

Originally Posted by nikki-k

Okay.. making sure I understand this correctly:
With Windows 7 and a 3rd party I/O, changing the buffer size will require a save, quit, relaunch of PT9 every single time??? IOW, this is like having a 10-speed bicycle that one is only able to switch gears manually, and only when stopped?

Yet it works fine with Mac? Core Audio is fine, but ASIO is borked?

(sigh) I am beginning to hate Avid.

Answer from DTS:

Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt

No, this is not the case - at least not with every 3rd party interface.

The problem is partially Pro Tools, partially the device drivers. The restart is only required in cases where Pro Tools gets an ASIO reset request from the driver. Why some devices require this we have not had time to fully investigate, but it's something we're looking into. Since some devices do these reset requests, we're also looking at way to optimize Pro Tools streaming so that it can handle these reset requests gracefully.

Recent notes (2014?) from tc electronic on the subject, cut to shorten it (posted on another forum, supplied by user kdarbyshirebryant:

Originally Posted by tc electronic

"Pro Tools' ASIO host implementation is still fairly new and has several issues. The biggest one is that it requires a complete restart of Pro Tools whenever our ASIO driver sends it a ASIO reset message. This results in the dreaded "ASIO device properties have been changed by the device control panel. Pro Tools must be restarted for these changes to take affect..." dialog which it displays.... Other ASIO hosts deal with this message properly.

We have to send a ASIO reset message to the ASIO host whenever we have to restart our streaming engine...

How's progress after 4 years, AVID?
-

[Joe.LoDuca]

I will attempt to answer those questions, not in front of my system but I have been using this exact hardware from version 9 thru 11 now. I use an RME interface that is PCIe. I don't know for sure but I am going to call it a proprietary PC card interface. It terminates to 1 port in the back the is identical to a 1394a or firewire 400 (however you want to think of it as). As I have mentioned, I got a ton of errors on anything that was NOT RME. My RME PCIe card termintes to a what they call a Multiface unit. Its just 16 channel I/o. 8 analogs, 8 adats. The drivers for this device comes with a control panel to configure the audio parameters. You have to match everything in this CP and PT. So to answer your questions:

This post is primarily for PT 11 users on Windows using 3rd party USB interfaces.

Good, I primarily use 11.. want to use the memory benifits..

Can you change H/W Buffer Size from within PT without the need to quit PT?
No. I always do everything at 48k/24 - but if someone was to give me a session at say 44k/16, I would have to know those parameters and first launch the RME control panel. I would set 44k/16 there, then launch PT then the session. If they match, they are happy, if they don't, all hell will break lose.

Can you switch between sessions with varying odd sample rates from within PT without PT either locking up, refusing to play, or the need to quit PT?
Absolutely not, PT will not tolerate that for a microsecond!!

I am specifically talking about switching between 44K1<>96K, 44.1K<>48K and 48K<>88K sample rates. RME sounds great and extremely stable. Like I say, I have not had 1 single issue since I started using that under PT9 and now 11. 2 weeks ago, I decided to try to gain more I/O but replacing my RME with the Prosonus 24.4.2, Pro Tools can't seem to talk to this device. It amazing the things I have tried with no results. Under the windows PT forum, I have another thread and the last post was a person that asks if I can check my firewire drivers. I know my chipset is the one Prosonus recommends. I am going to try to set the driver to (Legacy) as mentioned. I think I tried everything but this..


Which audio interface did you use for these questions? RME to MULTIFACE which is 16 i/o.

have a great day!

[Joe.LoDuca]

Sorry hjorte, kind of didn't answer your question correctly:

Can you change H/W Buffer Size from within PT without the need to quit PT?

The answer is NO, It a lot like the sample rate and word size. If anything changes, it HAS TO BE DONE FIRST in the control panel of the device. And PT really doesn't like changes.. Its likely you're going to have to reload that PT launch because it didn't like your buffer change.. I do everything at 512. I basically nail that down because PT doesn't like change.. SO that is how it works stable for me..

[hjorte]

Thanks Joe!

So we're back to normal then. Nothing 3rd party works!

[Sheldon Cooper]

If the only thing to do is restart the session, i would be fine but there is a bigger problem.
Does anyone tried the latest version of pro tools? Any good news?

[Bill Denton]

Just out of curiosity, but it might help me or (someone else) think of something...

How often do you have to change sample rates in a single day?

What are the sample rates you are you changing from/to?

Why is it necessary to change sample rates frequently (work coming from "outside" sources, working on older projects, etc)?

Has anyone used the new Pro Tools | Duet or Pro Tools | Quartet interfaces? If so, do these interfaces exhibit the same problem(s)?

If you are not using the Pro Tools | Duet or Pro Tools | Quartet, what make and model interface are you using?

As a temporary workaround, would it be possible for you to work at only one sample rate for part of the day and another for part of the day (only 44.1 in the morning, only 96 kHz in the afternoon, etc)?

What major Pro Tools version are you using (PT 9 HD, PT 11, etc)?

What Windows version and service pack are you using (Win 7 SP1, Win 8.1, etc)?

When I'm debugging and doing application support, I've found that identifying patterns is often useful (and sometimes it tells me the programmer sitting next to me fixed a problem last month that I've been tearing my hair out for three days over)...this info might help me or someone else notice something not previously noticed. It seems like TC has a pretty good handle on things, but sometimes a "second pair of eyes" can be useful...