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  #1  
Old 03-25-2019, 12:18 AM
johnbarnesiii johnbarnesiii is offline
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Default Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Hi guys,

My band just bought a PA and were looking to record our rehearsals into PT while going through the PA simultaneously.

Im running PT12 on a Mac, with Motu 828 MK3 as audio interface.

As a PA we have the QSC K12.2 speakers and theyre going through a Yamaha MG10XU mixer.

I have vocals into channel 1 of mixer.

Before we had the pa, wed record into PT via our Motu with vocals going into first channel in front of interface. So first question is, now that vocals are going into channel 1 of mixer and through the qscs, how to simultaneously record into Channel 1 of the Motu, so we have recorded vocals into PT, as well as vocal coming out of PA?

Then wed want to do the same for our keys/virtual instruments, as well as bass and guitar.

I understand how to do one or the other (through PA, or through the Motu/PT rig), but not sure how to do them together.

Any leads appreciated!


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  #2  
Old 03-25-2019, 12:40 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

The mixer only offers 2x2 recording and does not provide mic/line preamp returns so if you want to record everything into separate tracks then the easiest way is to split the signals with Y cables/Y adapter cables.

More sophisticated mixers would give you other options.
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  #3  
Old 03-25-2019, 04:31 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Use the DSP cue mixer in the 828 to send to the Yamaha. The Motu has much more capability than the MG10xu. Unless you need 4 mic pres instead of 2.

In which case you need a couple of these
http://www.shure.com/americas/produc...ng-transformer
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  #4  
Old 03-25-2019, 05:58 AM
ChuckS ChuckS is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Doesn't that mixer have an audio usb interface built in? If so, you can create an aggregate device on your mac that includes both the MOTU and Yamaha interfaces. Just be careful with clocking. (Or maybe edit the PT aggregate device to get rid of the onboard I/O.)
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  #5  
Old 03-25-2019, 09:52 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Doesn't that mixer have an audio usb interface built in? If so, you can create an aggregate device on your mac that includes both the MOTU and Yamaha interfaces. Just be careful with clocking. (Or maybe edit the PT aggregate device to get rid of the onboard I/O.)
That wont help, the USB is only 2x2 and aggregate IO is often a bad idea.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:23 PM
johnbarnesiii johnbarnesiii is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Hi guys thanks for the replies. So do I need to go through the yamaha mixer at all then?

Or should I plug the QSCs directly into the MOTUs main outs and then simply use Pro Tools to mix individual channels?

Also does the Motu have secondary outs, so that I can keep our smaller studio monitors plugged in there, as well as the QSCs?


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  #7  
Old 03-25-2019, 06:03 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

What are you trying to achieve? Record/monitor what audio? Lots of unknown things here like if you are trying to drive different monitor/in-ear mixes. I am guessing not given the simple mixer, but most bands likely want the ease of use of a simple hardware mixer during practice and will run Pro Tools like a tape machine.

Sure if you want to you can just mix in the hardware mixer in the Motu, if that has enough preamps for you. But why did you buy the Yamaha mixer?
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:17 PM
johnbarnesiii johnbarnesiii is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
What are you trying to achieve? Record/monitor what audio? Lots of unknown things here like if you are trying to drive different monitor/in-ear mixes. I am guessing not given the simple mixer, but most bands likely want the ease of use of a simple hardware mixer during practice and will run Pro Tools like a tape machine.



Sure if you want to you can just mix in the hardware mixer in the Motu, if that has enough preamps for you. But why did you buy the Yamaha mixer?


Hi Darryl,

Yes youre correct the original idea was as you stated to have a simple mixer for practice and just using Pro Tools to track ideas we come up with during rehearsals.

So well be ideally tracking 4 channels simultaneously: a vocal, a guitar (through a guitar amp), a bass (through bass amp), then drums and keys are all VI within Pro Tools. To have it setup to where each instrument tracks on a separate channel in PT, rather than just one stereo in for example.

I think I just got confused as to how to add the Yamaha mixer into things, in terms of routing and such. So the goal is to have everything coming out of the QSCs as well as into the PT rig for tracking, utilizing the Yamaha mixer if possible.

Also, not sure if MOTU has two separate outputs but we do have smaller studio monitors that would be nice to have as secondary monitors for lower level listening, and have the QSCs for louder practice.

Hope this makes sense, please excuse my lack of knowledge of this stuff, Im not the most technical but learning :)

Thx for any help!


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  #9  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:17 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

If you are always playing along to Pro Tools VI tracks then that pushes my recommendations further towards ignoring the Yamaha, see below.

To answer your specific question the Motu 828 Mk III has many analog line level outputs, ten I think, which you could use as five different stereo pairs for different monitor mixes.

You don't seem to have enough preamps. The Motu has two built in preamps. You need at least at least three or four preamps.. vocals, drums, guitar (you mic the cab but need a preamp for that mic) and bass if you want to mic that bass cab. Now in reality you might also want to DI record the Bass (or only DI record it) and DI record the guitar so you can reamp it later, and may want more than one mic on the drums, even for “playing around” you can end up with lots of inputs/preamps needed. How much you want to do will depend on the intended recording use, budget, size/flexibility of the recording space, reusing equipment elsewhere, etc. Lots of things we have no idea about.

You might have guitar or bass amp heads that give a line out you can use, which might or might not sound OK.

You could get there with a live analog or digital mixer that has direct outs from the preamps and just pull that amplified out signal into line inputs in the Motu, or give up on the Motu and use a digital mixer that is a fully fledged multi-track audio interface in its own rights (like the ubiquitous Presonus StudioLive mixers).

The Yamaha mixer give neither of these, does not have line level outputs from each preamp and does not provide individual tracks to a DAW... it only provides the stereo mix down.

You could premix down a few channels in the mixer and record its main outputs if you absolutely had no other choice for . preamp. But I would consider returning the Yamaha mixer and saving the money for a larger more capable mixer or for a ADAT preamp -- a cost effective way to give your Motu more input preamps.

You have to spend time understanding this stuff. Sit down with the Motu interface and the user guide and work though how to mix in CueMix FX completely independent of Pro Tools. Since you have a computer running Pro Tools there anyhow you can have CueMix FX up on the screen. Using that mixer gets you out of dealing with latency in Pro Tools, and lets you play back the VIs using a large IO buffer for more reliability, you may also want to freeze/commit the VI tracks for more reliability. You'll quickly see wether using the CueMix FX GUI on a screen works or not or your band wants a mixer with mechanical controls.
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Old 03-26-2019, 09:55 PM
johnbarnesiii johnbarnesiii is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
If you are always playing along to Pro Tools VI tracks then that pushes my recommendations further towards ignoring the Yamaha, see below.

To answer your specific question the Motu 828 Mk III has many analog line level outputs, ten I think, which you could use as five different stereo pairs for different monitor mixes.

You don't seem to have enough preamps. The Motu has two built in preamps. You need at least at least three or four preamps.. vocals, drums, guitar (you mic the cab but need a preamp for that mic) and bass if you want to mic that bass cab. Now in reality you might also want to DI record the Bass (or only DI record it) and DI record the guitar so you can reamp it later, and may want more than one mic on the drums, even for playing around you can end up with lots of inputs/preamps needed. How much you want to do will depend on the intended recording use, budget, size/flexibility of the recording space, reusing equipment elsewhere, etc. Lots of things we have no idea about.

You might have guitar or bass amp heads that give a line out you can use, which might or might not sound OK.

You could get there with a live analog or digital mixer that has direct outs from the preamps and just pull that amplified out signal into line inputs in the Motu, or give up on the Motu and use a digital mixer that is a fully fledged multi-track audio interface in its own rights (like the ubiquitous Presonus StudioLive mixers).

The Yamaha mixer give neither of these, does not have line level outputs from each preamp and does not provide individual tracks to a DAW... it only provides the stereo mix down.

You could premix down a few channels in the mixer and record its main outputs if you absolutely had no other choice for . preamp. But I would consider returning the Yamaha mixer and saving the money for a larger more capable mixer or for a ADAT preamp -- a cost effective way to give your Motu more input preamps.

You have to spend time understanding this stuff. Sit down with the Motu interface and the user guide and work though how to mix in CueMix FX completely independent of Pro Tools. Since you have a computer running Pro Tools there anyhow you can have CueMix FX up on the screen. Using that mixer gets you out of dealing with latency in Pro Tools, and lets you play back the VIs using a large IO buffer for more reliability, you may also want to freeze/commit the VI tracks for more reliability. You'll quickly see wether using the CueMix FX GUI on a screen works or not or your band wants a mixer with mechanical controls.


Thank you for the reply. Yes I now realize as you mentioned, I will need more preamps than the 2 in the front of the MOTU, in order to fully setup for rehearsal recording.

I am thinking about getting an 8 channel rack mounted preamp unit that I can daisy chain into the MOTU 828 so as to expand the number of preamps I have available. This would help for the rehearsal recording as well as enable me to record a fully miked drum kit down the line when were ready to record out album. But for rehearsal purposes however all were doing drum wise is VI drums through Pro Tools, or perhaps 1 drum mic in the room to capture a quick idea on acoustic drums.

Which 8 channel preamp unit would you recommend for this? In addition to recording rehearsals, as mentioned well be using it to record album quality drums for a record at some point down the line. So far Im considering:

- MOTU 8pre (https://tinyurl.com/yxh3wjph)
- Focusrite 18I20 (https://tinyurl.com/y25ryrmt)

Would either of these work for my purposes? And be close to good enough quality as the pres on my 828mkiii?

I managed to get the QSCs into my Pro Tools rig via a secondary out and additional master fader, which is a cool first step bc now I have the KRK monitors as one out and the QSCs as another.

I think once I have figured out which preamp unit to get, I will do as you guys are suggesting and just go direct into the DAW rig, bypassing the Yamaha mixer. It seems to make the most sense based on what you guys are kindly explaining to me.

For bass Ill plan to go DI out of my Orange Terror bass head and into a channel on whatever preamp unit I end up with. Same goes for guitar.

Thank you and any suggestions on the above preamp considerations, as well as others you have in mind, would be most appreciated!




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