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  #1  
Old 10-09-2009, 09:02 PM
amayhem amayhem is offline
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Default Issue When running Midi and more than one Midi Track

I'm sure this has been asked and gotten the answer several times. I just couldnt find where it was posted.

Lets say I open up several midi tracks.

How do I set it up so each track has its own channel (i think that's whats im looking for =) )

My problem happens when I have more than one midi track running the motif at once. ( well even with xpand or reason for that matter)

When I open up a new midi track, the original track is still triggered at times. Or if I running a sound module it changes the original sound to another bank When i start going from bank to bank in the second midi track.

lol someone make my night! =)
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2009, 09:45 PM
flommer flommer is offline
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Default Re: Issue When running Midi and more than one Midi Track

Lets say that you are trying to have the motif play back 3 different sounds, each responding to 3 different MIDI tracks..

The first thing you need to do is have the motif be set up to have multitimbral playback.. Basically, it means that incoming MIDI (to the motif) on a specific channel will only trigger the patch that is assigned to that channel, but you can have many channels active at the same time. I don't have a motif so I'm not sure what's involved there.. It might do that by default.. You should also be able to set your program changes in the individual MIDI tracks and they should only change the patch on the channel it is assigned to..

Next, 3 MIDI tracks:

MIDI 1, input set to all, output set to motif CH1
MIDI 2, Input set to all, output set to motif CH2
MIDI 3, input set to all, output set to motif CH3

etc

As you record enable one MIDI track at a time to record a part, Protools should only pass MIDI from the controller thru that track, which only sends out MIDI to that specific CH on the motif.

Is this not what you are already doing?

BTW do you have Local control OFF or ON in the Motif?
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2009, 09:54 PM
amayhem amayhem is offline
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Default Re: Issue When running Midi and more than one Midi Track

That's exactly what I'm doing.

I have even tried setting input to channel 1,2,3,ect. and output to Channel 1,2,3 ect

Locals off lol I dont wanna have it work locally and midi =( that would cause echo or both sounds from the Aux =)
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2009, 09:59 PM
flommer flommer is offline
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Default Re: Issue When running Midi and more than one Midi Track

Did you get the motif working via USB or are you still looping MIDI through your other gear?
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:06 PM
amayhem amayhem is offline
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Default Re: Issue When running Midi and more than one Midi Track

Its running through USB. After I installed the Driver AMS recognized the Motif when running VIA USB.
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:18 PM
flommer flommer is offline
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Default Re: Issue When running Midi and more than one Midi Track

Lets take this apart a little, for clarity...

Quote:
( well even with xpand or reason for that matter)
So you have exactly the same symptoms using the motif, xpand and reason?

Quote:
When I open up a new midi track, the original track is still triggered at times.
Do you mean during playback of existing MIDI or just when playing the keys... Or both? Or during recording? And this doesn't happen all the time? Be very specific.. Describe step by step what you are doing..


Quote:
Or if I running a sound module it changes the original sound to another bank When i start going from bank to bank in the second midi track.
Is this part just about the motif or are you talking about some other sound module? Do you mean trying different banks from within ProTools using the Patch select dialog? Or using the interface on the "module".. Again, be as specific as you can... I know you have MIDI clock involved here too, right?
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:36 PM
amayhem amayhem is offline
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Default Re: Issue When running Midi and more than one Midi Track

1)Yes, this happens if I open multiple instrument tracks with Xspand. For example, lets say my session consists of three instrument tracks and all three are running xspand. As soon as I am done with the first track and move on to the second and open up a sound, the first instrument track will be triggered as well. Same goes for Reason (well anything running midi.. Xspand, reason, Minimoog, ect.)
2)
A) Here’s what I do. I open up a midi track and aux track. Set up my aux track’s inputs so I can hear my motif. Then in the midi track I set my inputs and out puts to the motif. Once I record and am done with this track, I open up a second midi track. This midi track I do the same as the first, however when I start to sort thru my banks for sounds the first midi track changes as well.

B) When it comes to an instrument track I do the following. I open up an instrument track with in the plug-ins I open up (lets say xspand) then begin to play. Once this is done, I open up a second instrument track with (for the sake of this explanation lets say xspand again) this time I can change the sound fine with no effect on the first track, however when I begin to play on this track, both tracks play at once. Sometimes pro tools just picks which one it wants it to play, just the second or the first. Its rather annoying.

3) Yes, I am attempting to select different banks from the motif within Pro tools using the Patch select dialog. I have MIDI Clock on the motif Set to Midi, and input devices are all clicked.
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2009, 12:16 AM
flommer flommer is offline
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Default Re: Issue When running Midi and more than one Midi Track

Quote:
1)Yes, this happens if I open multiple instrument tracks with Xspand. For example, lets say my session consists of three instrument tracks and all three are running xspand. As soon as I am done with the first track and move on to the second and open up a sound, the first instrument track will be triggered as well. Same goes for Reason (well anything running midi.. Xspand, reason, Minimoog, ect.)
I have read of a problem that can happen if you change instances of Xpand around on Inst tracks. I'm not sure that is what is happening here...

Instead of Inst tracks, try inserting each instance of xpand on an aux. So if you create 3 auxes, insert xpand on each.. Then when you open up a MIDI track, you'll have the output options:

Xpand2 1 >CH 1-4
Xpand2 2 >CH 1-4
Xpand2 3 >CH 1-4

I think the 1-2-3 order is based on the order they were created in, but I'm not sure.. Another question: Are you trying to use the individual channels within a single instance of Xpand?

Reason should work differently. I don't think you want multiple Inst tracks with reason, either. You can have a single inst track, but then your additional instruments in reason should be controlled by MIDI tracks. If you have your audio routing in reason setup to have discrete outputs into ProTools via rewire, then you could use inst tracks, I guess, but that's a little off topic..

Try it this way, anyway, to see if you have different results.. Note that you should be able to keep all the MIDI inputs set to ALL..

Quote:
A) Here’s what I do. I open up a midi track and aux track. Set up my aux track’s inputs so I can hear my motif. Then in the midi track I set my inputs and out puts to the motif. Once I record and am done with this track, I open up a second midi track. This midi track I do the same as the first, however when I start to sort thru my banks for sounds the first midi track changes as well.
So you are saying that with the Motif acting as a multitimbral sound module, program change messages sent via a single channel/track from ProTools changes the patches on multiple channels on the Motif?
All I can say is that I have a QSR, and that when I use it in multi mode it does not work that way. I can pick the sounds from the patch dialog and the individual channels on the QSR stay to whatever the last message they received was..

Try this:

1 Aux for the Motif
3 MIDI tracks, Motif Ch 1-3 respectively

On the Midi tracks, change the track view to Program Change
Pick the Pencil tool and click right at the beginning of the track. A patch select Dialog should open allowing you to select a patch. Once you hit Done, you now have a Program change MIDI message that will assign that patch to that channel on the motif every time playback goes over that point in the MIDI track. See if this works for you.. I think the patch selector on the track works differently from actual program change MIDI messages.. Not sure though..

You may want to spend some time with the motif manual to make sure you know the ins and outs of using it as a multitimbral module. There could be some setting making trouble for you..

Quote:
B) When it comes to an instrument track I do the following. I open up an instrument track with in the plug-ins I open up (lets say xspand) then begin to play. Once this is done, I open up a second instrument track with (for the sake of this explanation lets say xspand again) this time I can change the sound fine with no effect on the first track, however when I begin to play on this track, both tracks play at once. Sometimes pro tools just picks which one it wants it to play, just the second or the first. Its rather annoying.
Hard to say with certainty but I suspect you may not realize how PT routes incoming MIDI:

Assume that all MIDI inputs are set to ALL. AFAIK, you shouldn't ever need to change this unless you are using 2 controllers at the same time (or maybe 2 zones on a controller that have different MIDI channels assigned to them). Also inst tracks would be considered MIDI tracks for the sake of this discussion..

If no MIDI tracks are record-enabled, then PT will play MIDI through either the first selected MIDI track (I'm pretty sure this means that if you have 3 MIDI tracks highlighted, then it will always play through the left-most one) OR the instrument/CH that you choose in Preferences>MIDI> Default Thru instrument

If one MIDI track is record enabled, then PT will only pass MIDI thru that track. If multiple tracks are record enabled, then PT will pass MIDI thru all of them..

So are you talking about this problem happening with tracks rec-enabled or not? During recording or just during playback while you are playing the keys? Or even with the transport stopped?

Quote:
3) Yes, I am attempting to select different banks from the motif within Pro tools using the Patch select dialog. I have MIDI Clock on the motif Set to Midi, and input devices are all clicked.
I touched on this in part A
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2009, 07:13 PM
amayhem amayhem is offline
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Default Re: Issue When running Midi and more than one Midi Track

still no luck.

I did it just as your explained.

it still causes the sound to change in the prior channel.
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  #10  
Old 10-11-2009, 11:37 AM
flommer flommer is offline
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Default Re: Issue When running Midi and more than one Midi Track

I don't have any more specific suggestions for you. Are you saying that with 3 instances of xpand you are still getting incorrect playback? If that's the case then you aren't following instructions somehow, because that is all within protools and works correctly.. I do this all the time..


Or are you saying the only persistent problem is that your patch changes to the motif are happening over multiple channels?

There is a forum for motif called "motifator". Maybe someone over there could help..
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