Waves GTR

[jeremyroberts]

Am I the only one tired of continually seeing these WUP comments everywhere?

No, you're not the only one. I'm also sick and tired of topics routinely hijacked with the mere mention of the name "Waves".

You guys think you are doing the community a favor, but you're not. You're keeping people from discussing the technology, and you are diverting focus to a company's business practices (hell, let's call it what it is, it's a PRICING issue).

When you buy a high-performance anything, there will typically be expensive on-going costs associated with it. But this is turning into a wup thread - the hijacker just got what they wanted...

Can we PLEASE get back on-topic?

[crizdee]

Hi again.

Just want to thank all for taking the time to reply. I ordered GTR TDM yesterday.

"I'm so excited...and I just can't hide it"

Hi,

Let us know how you like it? once you've used it!! I have Amp farm and Sansamp and like them both. i stll have trouble getting guitarists to use them! but always take a D.I. feed just incase and often end up using this to feed a plugin in the mix! shuuush don't tell the guitar player

Chris

[rtcstudio]

I'm working with an artist from New Orleans right now, we're finishing up the mix this week.

Katrina uprooted him and his wife. We were going to cut the record in New Orleans at Piety Studio, but the hurricane made it impossible.

It's an alternative rock style record, and after tracking, the artist wanted to do some overdubs at my studio. Problem was, all his gear was in a trailer in New Orleans (part of which was under about three feet of water). He had his Strat, so we fired up Waves GTR. It was the first time I'd used it. I also have Amp Farm 3.

GTR blew us both away. We used it for three days, just amazed at how fat it was. And the ability to use different mic emulations was really cool. To both of us GTR was just bigger and fatter than Amp Farm, more like the sounds we got in the studio during tracking using a multitude of rented amps and speaker cabs. And then you have all those stomp box emulations! Those are way cool, and really make the spread between it and Amp Farm even wider (although I realize that AF is way cheaper).

To me Amp Farm, even version 3, is still outdated. The upgrade was minimal, and I don't think Amp Farm comes even close to keeping up with the Line 6 hardware as far as selection and the amount of choices and control you have. I still use it as an effect for certain things. But I'll reach for GTR when I need to do real rock guitar od's and can't get into a studio with hardware.

Having said that, there is at least one GREAT guitar player here in Nashville that's using NI's Guitar Rig. He was one of the guitarists we used in the studio during tracking, and I have to say it was quite amazing. He used it in conjunction with his myriad of real amps and cabs. But the effects he got out of that NI thing were amazing! That would be the other thing I'd check out if I was a guitar guy.

[jeremyroberts]

>> but always take a D.I. feed just incase and often end up using this to feed a plugin in the mix! shuuush don't tell the guitar player

With GTR in TDM, the amp and stomp boxes are inserts, so you only record the clean signal (unless you route the input to an aux and bus out to tracks)... I usualy print guitars down once the guitarist leaves (after cleaning up punches and trim and fades), just to "lock in" the sounds that everyone liked at the tracking session, knowing i can always go back and tweak... but 99% of the time, I trust the player to know his "sound" and the interaction with his "amp"/instrument. Also, GTR + some stomp plugs can use a ton of DSP, so if I have 3 or 4 guitar tracks, that's a whole lot of resources to free up.

As you can tell, i'll dedicate an amp and stomp to a track... not the most efficient way to work, but it also allows me to tweak on the fly with the player in the room.

Another technique that we use for tracking some styles that need feedback or interaction with the amp -- (but this applies to anyone recording a guitar in the control room, going back to the beginning of time) -- I put everyone in the control room on headphones, only send the guitar to the mains, so there is some kind of physical interaction with the instrument and the speaker. Maybe not as ideal as having the actual guitar amp with the player, but for most guys, this has been fine, and the players have all commented that this is a better way to overdub.

Are we back on-topic now?

[Tweakhead]

Well said rtc on your earlier post about WAVES complainers.

Also, thank you for mentioning the pedal board in GTR. This for me is the best part. I have used this on many other things beside guitar tracks, such as keyboards and vocals. These stomp boxes are unbelievable. They make many other FX plug-ins pale in comparison, and you get SO MANY different ones.

[mahler007]

Hi Everybody,
How do you guys actually use this software? Do you DI the instrument straight into PT, through the guitar program and then to disk, or do you use the plugin to tweak the sound after recording some other way (like a mic to a cabinet, etc...?) I imagine you could use it in any capacity you like, of course, but I'm curious to know how you get good sounds from these plugs...

I have used the Vox Tonelab SE (as a DI) with decent results. I guess in principle it works the same as a guitar plug- once the analog signal is digitized you can do whatever you want with it, whether it's a hardware unit or software makes no diference, really... But still, after listening to things I did with my Tonelab I am disappointed with how two dimensional and grainy it sounds at times.

I totally believe you when you say that you can make these programs work, but I have tried Amplitube and McDSP Chrome Tone before and basically find that no matter what I do, they sound like complete and utter garbage. The distortion/overdrive stuff especially is an abomination! Perhaps I'm showing my inexperience here, but after playing for 20 years, I like to *think that I know something* about good guitar tone Plus, I don't seem to have any problems getting a good sound when I plug into my Twin and fiddle about for a few seconds... Step on my overdrive pedal and next thing I know I'm in tone heaven- smooth, organic, three dimensional sound with plenty of space and dynamics. An SM 57 up close and a KM 184 a couple feet back into two tracks and it's perfect...

Anyway, I hope I don't come off as having an attitude or something, because that's certainly not what I intend! I am just always dismayed when I come across posts like this and find experienced, knowledgeable people raving about these plugins, because I can't understand why anybody would ever want to use one of these things, at least as the main source for a guitar track. What am i missing- please teach me! I feel like I'm missing out on something

Cheers,
Andrew

[GL]

[QUOTE]

Am I the only one tired of continually seeing these WUP comments everywhere?

I'm right there with you. About 3 or 4 months ago I deleted all my posts that were conributing to a thread about Waves GTR because I got irritated after the thread got hijacked into a WUP bash. I agree with everything you said 100%. Amen!

IMO, Waves GTR is the best to come out yet, and I've tried them all and own almost all of them. Plus, it gives you the opportunity (unlike Amp Farm) to engage the cabinet modeling section only (as does Trash). Use this in combination with a real amp head (Showman, Bassman, Marshall, whatever) into a load simulator (like a THD HotPlate) and you've got an unbelievable combination. Take the Hotplate line out into PT through a good mic pre (line input) and insert WAVES GTR, cab only, on your record track. So you'll have a real amp into any number of great cabinet models -- this combination has incredible bite and punch, and you can track at 3 AM with it and not bother anyone. This combo is also better than using a real amp head into the legendary Palmer PDI-03 speaker simulator (as used by many top guitarists). It also sidesteps the issue of grainy, one-dimensional computer software distortion, which is really what you get with all amp simulation software (even Waves GTR, but to a much lesser extent) like Amp Farm (the worst IMO), ChromeTone, Amplitube, etc. You get a real creamy amp distortion, not the cold computer version of it that all die hard real amp-only guitarists think sound absolutely terrible (with a capital T!).

That said, just using Waves GTR amp and cab both, IMO, is 80 - 90% as good as the above combination, and if you're in a hurry, it's fine.

[rtcstudio]

Hey Andrew,

I didn't perceive any attitude in your post.

These things are definitely not a one size fits all. Given a choice, I'd always prefer to use an amp, a good room, and a couple of good mics. But at least for the style of music I'm doing, and the guitarists I'm working with, GTR is pretty dang close, especially for doing overdubs on a project that already has some great guitar sounds on it (although I did do an EP and the only thing we used on electric guitars was GTR). In a lot of cases I and the guitar guys have been just as happy as we would have been if we'd had an amp.

One other question I'd ask is what style of music are you doing? For me, your statement about the distortion thing being bad is exactly what I feel about Amp Farm. It seems thin to me, and totally non-organic. I would ask if you've tried GTR or NI's Guitar Rig. They both have demos.

How do I use it? I either use the direct box method straight to Pro Tools (using the Paul Reid Smith box that comes with GTR) or I'll plug straight into a 1073, or more recently into my UA 6176. Take that to a Pro Tools audio track, and put GTR and STOMP accross that as plugins. If you have the resources (which I do) you can just leave it at that. Then at the mix, you can fine tune or change anything about the guitar tone. If you're short on resources, bus the stuff out to another audio track, and then deactivate the original audio track with GTR on it. You can always change it later. At that point, I'll also mess around with Revibe and different room sounds, or Echo Boy, to better simulate a good mic in a good room. This adds even more depth to the sound for me.

But so far, I don't know ANY guitar players that are getting one of these plugin suites and then putting all their amps, cabs and stomp boxes on Ebay! And I'd be quite afraid if I hired a guy and all he brought to the session was a laptop and a DI.

As always YMMV.

[jeremyroberts]

I am just always dismayed when I come across posts like this and find experienced, knowledgeable people raving about these plugins, because I can't understand why anybody would ever want to use one of these things, at least as the main source for a guitar track. What am i missing- please teach me! I feel like I'm missing out on something

Andrew,

First, thank you for the positive attitude...

a few thoughts, in no particular order:

1. I have lots of experience with a few popular guitar amp plugs (I own Amp Farm and AmpliTube), but until GTR, I was never satisfied (nor were the players) for tracking...
2. The difference in what you perceive as your sound in TDM vs. rtas is something to consider (does the latency of rtas contribute to a perception to the player? maybe?)
3. The speaker in the control room trick... your instrument needs to interract with the speaker - which means get your program out of the mains.
4. The PRS direct box that comes with GTR. This must have something to do with it. I have not done an apples for apples test, use the PRS DI with AmpliTube or Amp Farm (or use a Radial DI with GTR), but there must be something about this DI that works.

My suggestion: find a dealer and bring your guitar and go play with it on a TDM rig - but not on headphones! Make sure the only thing coming out of the speakers is your guitar.

Look, the technology is getting better and better, so Waves is not going to own this segment of the market forever, but the pairing of their DI I think is one place that they have an automatic plug-and play advantage. With the other plugins, your hardware interface can be whatever you use... with Waves, you will use the PRS box, and that protects their software from idiots like me who may try to plug in a guitar using whatever is sitting in the rack. If I get a chance, maybe we'll try the PRS DI with other amp sims, and see what it sounds like... next month, maybe. Maybe someone else can try this too?

[mahler007]

I'm mostly a nylon string player, but have recently been coming back to my roots and exploring the possibilities of the electric guitar. I was working on an experiment that had several layered, clean electric guitar parts that I had recorded DI through a Summit 2ba-221 pre. It didn't sound all that bad, but since my re-amping capabilities at the time were non existent, I downloaded ChromeTone because I wanted to see what the tracks would sound like with a little bit of overdrive on them. I was horrified at the sound i got, no matter how I tweaked the knobs! It was enough for me to hear that if I tracked it with a good pedal or amp, however, it might work... More recently I used Amplitube to "dirty up" a bass part in a tune I was making a demo of. I really like the interface, and overall I thought it sounded better than ChromeTone, but it was still pretty bad- especially when I cranked up the drive on either the amp model or the overdrive stomp box. It ended up working fairly well in the mix, though.

Anyway, thanks for all your tips! I'll be sure to implement them next time I find myself in a position to use one of these programs again.

Best,
Andrew