Third Party Midi Controllers and Pro Tools 10/11

[ibanman555]

I am currently searching for a way to connect my JL Cooper ES-8/100 controllers to Pro Tools and wondering if any of you might have some insight on how this is possible. I've done quite a bit of research and found that there are a number of people who have used a handful of different programs to 'emulate' a HUI connection to Pro Tools allowing one to successfully send and receive data.

As of recently I have found a program (AutoMute) developed to primarily help turn input monitoring off when recording. This program is designed for that specifically, but does provide the option to make PT think a HUI is connected to it... here is that thread

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=328517

Now I'll get a little technical. Based on what info I have found, when you attempt to connect a HUI device to PT you select 'Peripherals>MIDI Controllers>HUI' and then assign the appropriate I/O to your HUI device. I found that PT sends a ping to HUI (midi message 90 00 00) and my belief is HUI will send a response ping (midi message 90 00 7f). If I simply send a ping back at the same interval I am receiving it, I get a HUI connection error.

This, in theory will not allow me to send data back to PT from my control surface unless I have a solid connection. Any action I perform in PT still sends to the HUI even though it is not connected.

Now, I have installed this AutoMute program and set it up in PT as a 'fake HUI'. I don't receive an error message which tells me that PT is happy and connected to a HUI device. However, it is not sending the ping from PT now, or any other MIDI data for that matter (that I can see). But PT is happy. I'm curious how I can use this to my advantage in connecting an "unsupported" control surface...

[John_Toolbox]

This thread on the reaper forums seems to have the most complete list of hui documentation I've found so far:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=101328

[ibanman555]

Thanks for this... it is one of the documents I picked up right away. First thing, it states pretty simply what messages it's looking for... but it isn't jiving. I suppose that is why I posted on this forum, full of Pro Tools people. The reaper guys have it easier, but I just can't stop using PT and I really really hope to get my control surfaces working.

I'll need to look thru your attached thread again in detail to see if there is anything specific that may work to my advantage, but I'm not so sure...

[John_Toolbox]

Out of curiousity, what are you using to translate your MIDI messages?

I have a similar project I've been working with on the back burner right now, but I'm using it to control old TDM plugins so I have a Kontakt script set up to emulate a CS-10. As you know, the CS-10 was dropped from Pro Tools a while ago, but the reason I chose it for this project was (if I understand the HUI protocol correctly) that the HUI protocol only allows 4 knobs per plugin. CS-10 can do at least 6, and I think with a few button pushes it will do more.

[ibanman555]

Right now the most effective and useful program to translate MIDI is Bome's Translator. It's a great interface and I can route everything right in that program.

Basically wondering how to get the MIDI messages FROM Pro Tools to the controller is my last step. I've contacted the maker of AutoMute and hopefully they can shed some light on the missing data from PT. I will be doing more testing later tho.

If HUI only allows for 4 knobs per plugin, how are you able to configure 6? Are you currently getting PT to sync up to another program emulating HUI?

[John_Toolbox]

Shane also told me about the Bome program, I think that's what I'd need to convert the Sysex Data to CC or something that Kontakt can understand.

I'm emulating a JL Cooper CS-10 with Kontakt Scripting, not a HUI. The CS-10 protocol allows for 6 knobs per plugin, but the CS-10 was dropped around PT8 iirc. I'm using this specifically to control an old PT5/PT6 rig, so I have more options than just HUI to control it. The main reason I picked the CS-10 is all of the specs for what it does with MIDI are published in the Pro tools MIDI controllers guide. So far, I can successfully send the MIDI CCs to pro tools to control everything, but I'm not able to get the "return" info from pro tools, because a CS-10 recieves Sysex from Pro Tools.

I also just discovered MIDIpipe, I haven't delved into it much but so far it looks like it doesn't convert Sysex to CC.

[ibanman555]

OOOH ok I get it now! Are you using an actual CS-10 or some other external control surface? So basically we are in the same boat, yet you may just be able to use Bomes to convert your incoming data from Pro Tools. I feel very close to a solution here, and if so, anyone with an interface that is not supported and use them again, or any interface they choose.

If you see my controllers, they aren't much, just 'mute, solo, select, aux' and 8 faders. Should be a simple job. I've already mapped what CC's come from the consoles, and now working on what PT sends via it's HUI output. Just gotta get the two working together...

[John_Toolbox]

Right now, I'm just using a scripted UI I made in Kontakt that has a similar layout to a CS-10. All of the buttons and sliders on it output the same MIDI that a hardware CS-10 would. Once I figure out the correct sequence of button presses for each plugin function I want to access, I'll make another script that looks like each plugin's actual UI and controls each parameter from dedicated buttons/sliders.

But I thought it would be easier to duplicate the CS-10 first so I can make sure it's protocol will be able to do what I need it to do.

[ibanman555]

Ok, I'm not sure what happened but I was having lots of trouble to start, and how I am getting somewhere.

I'm running PT 10.3.7 on Windows 7 64 bit. I also have a trial version of PT 11 running on the computer as well. Right now I've only been successful with PT10. Using Bome MT, I've set it up to receive the ping from PT (90 00 00), translating it to 90 00 7F, and outputting back to PT via HUI. It is accepting the ping and not giving an error message.

I then transmitted my CH 1 'Mute' button, translated it to what PT wants to see when you are to mouse click the mute button on that channel, and I am able to toggle mute on and off. I am then sending the midi message that is produced when the 'Mute' button is pressed in PT, translating that back to what my controller wants to see, and getting the LED to turn on and off in sync with the mute button in PT. Whew... Gonna be a lot of programming but it's thankfully working!!

The last step will be the faders, and hopefully with everything connected and happy, they will translate as well...

[John_Toolbox]

Good to hear, let me know how it works out when you're done.