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  #1331  
Old 08-29-2013, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

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Originally Posted by Tom Graham View Post
We would love to support all hardware forever, but the technology in these control surfaces is over 12 years old, and the time it would take to develop and thoroughly test firmware upgrades to meet current Pro Tools performance specifications would severely impact our ability to ship products and deliver the new feature innovations.
How does an ethernet controller affect performance?
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  #1332  
Old 08-29-2013, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Maybe another way to say this is: We would love to support all hardware forever, but that would cause our engineering and test effort to become so large we would eventually not be able to ship a product, or for that matter – innovate and create new Pro Mixing products based on the features and requests you have asked for.
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  #1333  
Old 08-29-2013, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Thank you Tom for your presence and monitoring of this thread - I'm sure you can understand the concerns presented herein
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  #1334  
Old 08-30-2013, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

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Originally Posted by Tom Graham View Post
To my knowledge, we are one of the only manufacturers of technology hardware that offers its customers an upgrade path to newer hardware. We currently offer Control|24 owners the opportunity to move up to C|24 for $6,399 retail—a $3,600 discount off the retail price. We will honor this same upgrade opportunity and pricing to our ProControl customers.
Pro Control to C|24 is not an upgrade to me. Not as well made, no channel matrix and a bunch of mic pres I would never use. Besides my Pro Control is working perfectly so why junk it? I'll stay on PT10 and not bother with the co-install, waste of money. The crappy part is falling behind the upgrade path so it's a no win. A fine mess, Ollie.
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  #1335  
Old 08-30-2013, 03:45 AM
Brahamnesik Brahamnesik is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

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Originally Posted by scotsman View Post
Thank you Tom for your post, unfortunatley it won't make me spend twice the price of other PT users to upgrade my PT10 HD2 system with my Control 24 to a HDX system. To jump from one unsupported controller system to another which will be likewise dumped in a few years is frankly thinking we were born with more than a little bit missing!!

When many of us have build our studios around our centre piece controllers a C24 just is a retrograde step and I would think that that from Pro Control owners the feeling might be just a bit stronger!!

What you have done with the Control 24 and Pro Control users is shown that all your controllers have a finite life of about 10 years from release for updates. When you consider the investment required over this period many will choose not to invest, is this really the message you wanted to communicate. Sounds that you have just killed many potential sales just because you won't produce 2 64 bit drivers, so to save a few dollars you have lost ten of thousands.

It's a hard message in reply, but I hope you understand the strong feeling, the financial mountain is just too great for the miminal improvement.

cheers Scotsman
+1. The life of an ethernet controller should be when the connection is completely obsolete and no longer used. But each company its own policy and priority even if it seems wrong on a commercial point of view.

I think that most Pro Control and Control 24 users won't buy AVID controllers again and won't recommend them to their friends or clients. Better off buying more universal products.
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  #1336  
Old 08-30-2013, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

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Originally Posted by Brahamnesik View Post
I think that most Pro Control and Control 24 users won't buy AVID controllers again and won't recommend them to their friends or clients. Better off buying more universal products.
Afraid so - this is the takeaway
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  #1337  
Old 08-30-2013, 10:58 AM
michael c michael c is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

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Originally Posted by Tom Graham View Post
Maybe another way to say this is: We would love to support all hardware forever, but that would cause our engineering and test effort to become so large we would eventually not be able to ship a product, or for that matter – innovate and create new Pro Mixing products based on the features and requests you have asked for.
As a studio owner with ProControl, I feel it would have been in your best interest to write the driver as no serious explanation has been given and the ethernet protocol is still widely used.

With that said, I appreciate you coming in and at least acknowledging that Avid is well aware of this issue with their customers and has chosen to move on. Since Avid is abandoning the ProControl and Control24 Tom, can you make the appropriate info available so some 3rd party can choose to write a driver for your abandoned product? Since Avid doesn't support it and it is EOL, it would be up to the 'buyer beware' concept.....

Thank you.
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  #1338  
Old 08-30-2013, 11:30 AM
Tweakhead Tweakhead is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

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Originally Posted by Tom Graham View Post
snip ... We would love to support all hardware forever, but the technology in these control surfaces is over 12 years old, and the time it would take to develop and thoroughly test firmware upgrades to meet current Pro Tools performance specifications would severely impact our ability to ship products and deliver the new feature innovations. ... snip
Based on this statement by Tom, I started a thread on the main PT11 conference asking whether Icon users were prompted or forced to update firmware when launching PT11.

Icon owners are reporting back that they were not prompted to update firmware.

It would seem strange that Control|24 and ProControl would require new firmware yet the other control surfaces would not require it.

Hmm...

It's not like owners of Control|24 and ProControl are wanting new features added. We simply want the existing things to work. ie faders, mutes, solos, etc etc.
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  #1339  
Old 08-30-2013, 05:16 PM
scotsman scotsman is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Graham View Post
Maybe another way to say this is: We would love to support all hardware forever, but that would cause our engineering and test effort to become so large we would eventually not be able to ship a product, or for that matter – innovate and create new Pro Mixing products based on the features and requests you have asked for.
No one is asking for or expects "forever support" or even a 100% tested system (& if you did it would an industry first!!). We just want to get over the hump and get the HDX hardware, which doesn't kill our present controller setup. Surely a "does work with limitations" would have been a reasonable halfway house which would would have showed you listened and also enable you to get the valueable upgrade $s. You could have covered yourself with various caveats saying "this is a goodwill gesture and is the definately last hurra for the Control 24 & Pro Control".

This would carry over all the controller users to HDX and formally draw the matter to an end, while providing the sales to make this worth while for Avid and continue the extended PT use as the users require. Again making this driver would allow the users to get the full Controller experience until they "pass on" peacefully versus the current PT11 that will kill your controller. This makes the HDX upgrade the same cost as everyone else and also allowing a controller upgrade in a couple of years.

Unfortunatley to expect the ones who have spent the most in the past to somehow just pony up with 2 or 3 times the standard upgrade cost just shows that you didn't think this through and have become detached from a large part of your user group. Where is the pathway to enable a reasonable like for like upgrade, you did want to take us with you?. Remember that a Pro Control was the Icon Control of its day and you would never ask a Icon user to take a C24 as an exchange and expect them to give you their Icon plus $6k as a fair trade!!

Again thanks Tom, a dialogue is much appreciated

Cheers Scotsman
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  #1340  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:37 AM
iMartin iMartin is offline
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Default Re: Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

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Originally Posted by Brahamnesik View Post
+1. The life of an ethernet controller should be when the connection is completely obsolete and no longer used. But each company its own policy and priority even if it seems wrong on a commercial point of view.

I think that most Pro Control and Control 24 users won't buy AVID controllers again and won't recommend them to their friends or clients. Better off buying more universal products.
Completely agree, I stated the last part early in this thread and still stick to it. Again, I appreciate Tom chiming in here and I guess avid actually did run the numbers and concluded that it would not be a profit for them to have a big bunch of users upgrading our systems...
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