Are hardware FX units better than software plugins

[Jay]

I've been looking to get a reverb plugin for my PT system but I feel that no software plugin really sounds as good as the Lexicon 300 or 480L etc.I don,t know what the reasons behind this are but one angle could be that the highend box manufacturers( Lexicon/TC/Eventide)don,t make there TDM plugins as good for obvious reasons-money,even taking into account the high cost of the hardware.Or could it be that the dsp chips can't replicate the quality of the hardware units. I don't know what the reasons are but to my ears there is definately a quality discrepancy.I was recently using pure pitch to pitchshift some natural sounds which turned out to be unuseable due to the artifacts created by purepitch, however when putting the same source material thru the Eventide DSP 4000 the artifacts were not there.
When are plugins going to be of the same standard as the hardware units.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Jay

[Kenny Gioia]

Maybe when your Mix Chips weigh as much as the Lexicon 480L

[tomcat]

my ears agree with yours. i think your reason #1 is the right one. chips is chips, i think. with all the cracked plugs circulating, i think the answer to when software effects will get better is when better copy protection is utilized.

i absolutely love the sound of my tc m3000. cheap (relatively speaking. i think i paid around 2 grand) and world-class. i never touch megaverb anymore. this unit is found along side 480s, 960s, and systems 6000s thoughout the film mixing world. always trust your ears. (and protect them, so you can)

[Ang1970]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Produceher:
Maybe when your Mix Chips weigh as much as the Lexicon 480L<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn, you were reading my mind!




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Angelo Quaglia
AQ Productions

[Chris Lambrechts]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>
When are plugins going to be of the same standard as the hardware units.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As if .........

Plugs are great, so is Hardware ..... Especially after seeing the inside of a 960 ........ A real deal PC (Penium inside) motherboard ......... go figure ........



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Chris Lambrechts

[tld]

I gotta agree with tomcat. I recently got a TC M3000 and it's the best thing I've done to my system to date. Got it at carlson-audio.com for $1700, and given the improvement to my system that's a gift.

I think Reverb is still a bit too complex of an algorithm to do well on a little DSP chip.

Tom

[KingTor]

yeah, the tc m3000 has about as much dsp power as a mix farm, if my memory serves. and a lexicon? forgetaboutit.

[Jules]

I several FX via AES i/o and a few via analog i/o

TC M3000
Eventide DSP 4000
AMS RMX 16 (analog i/o)

Next to go on line are:
Roland SRE 555 tape delay
Roland Chorus Ensemble pedal

I am a great advocate of digital i/o, this can also be managed on a budget - with a Lex 500 or other devices. Don't discount the analog i/o, it sounds fine with my RMX 16......
If you have analog i/o favorites, hook em right up!

Jules

[Zep Dude]

Based on earlier discussions, TDM chips just don't have the power to really nail the complexities needed for good reverb.

However, try running two Trueverbs in tandem (read the manual because it involves changing a few settings). You'll notice a definite improvement in the density and lushness with this method. I'm surprised other companies haven't followed this idea or even just created a "Hi Quality" verb that uses a few chips in tandem.

[Greg Malcangi]

As I understand it, Lexicon, TC, Eventide, etc., don't manufacture their own DSP chips, they effectively just buy "off the shelf" DSP chips. What therefore makes a Lexicon reverb sound like a Lexicon is the mathematical algorithms applied by the DSP chip/s. Now if I owned a company whose entire reputation was based on a set of algorithms, the last thing I would do would be to place those algorithms in a piece of software that is very easily distributed and relatively easy to crack. I would still make the software as good as I could but all my most prized algorithms would stay in my hardware units only.

Although I think that the limited DSP power in PT compared to outboard units is a factor, I tend to agree with Tomcat. I can only see these companies incorporating their best stuff when they feel far more secure that the software can't be cracked.

Caveat: I'm speaking from general software experience rather than from specific inside knowledge.

Greg