OK, so here's a serious question for Avid regarding "openness"...

[Benoni]

Originally Posted by nst7

The idea that a standalone editor would take huge time and resources is a joke. They could do this in their sleep. There's no reason on earth not to have it.

I'd venture to say you are correct. But the question posed to us was relatively clear as an "Either-Or" question. I don't know WHY they would pose such a question, surely they could not really be thinking of taking the editor out of Pro Tools and forcing you to use an iPad to use the editor

[moff]

I originally posted this in the "Ideascale is empty" thread, but it seems more appropriate here... :

To reiterate:

I'm on Lion and\or Win7 and PT10, so don't have the PTLE 8 issue that some have. From what I understand, the central issue driving demand for a stand-alone editor is being able to load and save patches without having to load PT. Other members, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Because of that, obviously doing an editor for Mac\PC (even Linux) would be the primary goal, but a portable solution - the ability to save and load patches, or even do a full restore at the gig using my iPhone or iPad (I have no problem with Apple, but let's not forget the Android or even BB users out there) - would be a godsend. Maybe something that load\dumps directly to\from the handheld, and syncs to the computer via iTunes\Media Player or some other 3rd-party app. There are plenty of 3rd-party apps that allow access the handheld's filesystem directly (including iPhone and Blackberry).

Someone mentioned a "cloud" solution whereby the handheld functions only to facilitate web-based load and dump of patches to\from a central computer or server. Cool idea.

Another idea, and I don't want to water down the need for a stand-alone solution, but alternatively, or perhaps supplementally, you could also consider devising a way to load and dump from/to a USB thumb drive or hard drive. I'm sure there would be many who would be happy with that.

Silly suggestion perhaps, but how about opening up the API so 3rd party developers can build plug-ins and tools? I don't necessarily mean "open-sourcing" it, just making a "Developer Kit" available.

[Benoni]

Originally Posted by Righty27

Clear choice between one or the other ... surely cannot be technical so have to assume Avid prefer to use development resources for iOS. Sounds like it's either iPad or the resources go onto something else altogether.

As a PT10 + Lion user, I do not have the PT8LE users' upgrade issues - I do have an iPad and (apparently unlike Benoni) have bought into the Apple walled garden ...

So, either established workflow for up-to-date PT users ... or iPad-based for users of other DAWs (including users of previous PT versions upgrading their Mac OS). And will the PC/Mac need to be switched on for the iPad to control a (connected?) ER - this point may be important for e.g. any live guys favouring the iPad app????

Or have I got this wrong?! I'd like an iPad app but, given the choice as it stands, prefer things as they are as most of the time, I wouldn't want to rely on another device.

I would have ZERO problem with Avid making an iPad app(editor) that ONLY ran on the iPad and no other tablet, phone, laptop, desktop ect..... As long as they left the editor we have NOW alone. I don't see how it would be so difficult to develop an Editor that can be used on an iPad, but still let us use the editor in PT

[bredo]

They can't remove the Editor from Pro Tools .

The point being to use the 11R in different scenarios. Some will use it with PT exclusively, some of us want to use it with other DAW's with a Stand Alone editor.
Not hard to grasp, is it? again.

[Benoni]

Originally Posted by bredo

They can't remove the Editor from Pro Tools .

The point being to use the 11R in different scenarios. Some will use it with PT exclusively, some of us want to use it with other DAW's with a Stand Alone editor.
Not hard to grasp, is it? again.

The question posed was a "this or that" question. Choose the Editor as it is now, OR one on an iPad. So by that phrasing it is interpreted to mean leave the editor in PT or remove it and make it only usable on an iPad.

If that is not what Max meant, then please rephrase the question.

Avid could absolutely remove the editor from pro tools (the UI files) and make a separate app that is only loadable on an iPad.

[bredo]

I know Avid can remove the editor from PT, but they can't seriously consider that option. That's what I ment by "can't".
That's just to stupid IMO.

Come on Avid, get rid of this discussion all together.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by Benoni

The question posed was a "this or that" question. Choose the Editor as it is now, OR one on an iPad. So by that phrasing it is interpreted to mean leave the editor in PT or remove it and make it only usable on an iPad.

So Avid ARE looking for a way out of supporting the 11Rack for PT11?

[nst7]

Not sure what you mean by that. The Eleven Rack will be supported in PT11 and beyond. It's not on the list of end of life units like the 002/003, etc.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by nst7

Not sure what you mean by that. The Eleven Rack will be supported in PT11 and beyond. It's not on the list of end of life units like the 002/003, etc.

Don't worry about the dribble I write I live in an alternate reality and I haven't slept well for weeks .

[JChance]

Originally Posted by AvidEditor

I don't work in the music industry, I hope someone who does gives their opinion. I think if the Eleven Rack makes inroads into the professional recording studio we'd see advancement. But I don't see it. In the meantime I love the Eleven Rack, it's a fantastic tool.

I'm late to the party, but I thought I'd chime in with a couple of thoughts.
Basically what I think I could add is the perspective of a former Eleven Rack owner...while also stating a few reasons why I would consider getting another one...
I'm certainly not a household name a la Dann Huff or Nathan Chapman, but I work in Nashville as a session guitar player & producer...so maybe I can throw in some "real world" takes on the unit, at least how I've observed it's implementation in the commercial field here in town.
I've seen Eleven Racks used by a number of my industry buds. When I had mine, I mainly used it at home for overdubbing extra layers but did take it to a few demo sessions instead of an amp with good results.

As a guitar player first and foremost, where Eleven (both hardware and software) really shines, in my opinion, is in both it's simplicity and authenticity. It's very easy to get commercial-quality sounds up and running in a hurry.
I'm a meat & potatoes kind of guy and don't do well with "too many options" in terms of layered effects, banks, etc. But I also know guys who are super-tweakers, and get superb results. Sometimes I wish I had their creative zest for thinking outside the box to get unique & "perfect" tones!

With Eleven, you can truly have it either way. I already had the plugin, and was mainly using the rack for the amps....so it ended up being a redundant piece of gear(even though some of the effects in the rack were outstanding!). That's why I ended up selling it. I totally take the Avid guys on their word when they say the amp sounds are exactly the same between the plugin and the rack, based on my own uses of both.

While I loved the simplicity of the 11R, there were a few small things that I thought it was missing for the more "production" minded. Unfortunately, I sold mine just a couple of months before the expansion pack came out... Poorly timed, as the pack may have given me more of what I was looking for.. I wish the plugin had the Matchless and Bogner in particular!

Still, I was really missing a few more options on cabs & mic placement. This is where 3rd party IR's could come *very* handy. Being able to use something like the Redwirez library would be the best of all worlds, I think. Depending on the player and instrument, being able to move mics around a little more can make a difference when dialing in sounds. In that area, the Eleven "on-axis/off-axis" option can be a little too "one size fits all."
The options that are there are very good, though! In fact, I just re-amped some parts today on a pop record I'm working... literally using presets in the Eleven RTAS. For the particular player/instrument I had on the session, it just worked. I doubt the mix engineer will have to EQ the guitar tracks at all. (For reference, it was an alt-pop Gretsch tone and the "AC Hi Boost Crunch" was the ticket. )

The other thing that would be nice, if/when they update the rack unit again, would be to ditch the AD/DA section from it's 003 cousin to the newer chips in the mBox line. This may be too esoteric for some, I dunno.

When I had my Eleven Rack, I was in the middle of heavily editing 3 album projects I was producing while simultaneously touring non-stop with a new artist. I needed something portable so I could work on the records on the bus and while in hotel rooms during the day, so I got a new mBox 3. *NIGHT and DAY* to my ears in D/A conversion quality between the Eleven Rack and mBox 3 for precision editing (like tightening rhythm tracks, VOCAL TUNING, etc.) *Collective GROAN*

So, in summary, along the lines of what many of you have said....My votes for the next revision would be

-More cab/mic/placement options and/or the ability to load IR's (along with a handful of whatever new amps & effects they decide on.)

-Updated conversion from the mBox series.

If those things happen, for me personally I'd immediately jump back in for the Eleven hardware. It's a really good product either way.