PT native out of the bag

[Dism]

Originally Posted by hue

Conversely, how do you think they are going to justify Complete Production Tool Kit for $2000?

If you pay attention to the other threads... We have already been told by Avid that the CPTK is getting a bump in some way. LE users aren't being left out in the cold.

[hue]

Originally Posted by Dism

Right... Mix went out, HD came in.

Revolving door, my friend. DSP will be back with a vengeance. Notice how the brand new MBoxes have DSP? UAD is still going strong and they refreshed, RME has DSP on their interfaces...

DSP is only evolving. New TDM cards will be out soon. Believe it.

Which makes it even WORSE for all those people who just recently bought HD 1-3 cards! You're just asserting what I was trying to get at. They sold their existing HD cards at a discount(probably still making huge profit) so that they could make room for new TDM cards. Yay for all those people who bought HD Accel cards that are soon to be obsolete. Thanks AVID! You're a real pal.

When I got my UAD 1e card, I payed $130 for it. About 1/4 of the original selling price. And, rightly so. UAD was about to release the UAD-2. Fair is fair. You make something obsolete, sell it at it's value because everyone is going to want the newest and greatest.

[danander11]

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO

I think by the time Winter NAMM comes around we will see that a large part of this puzzle has revealed itself. Even now, as Shanes posts point out, reading between the lines tells us that there is definitely much more to come.

Exactly! I think there is going to be a bonaza around Christmas this year.. Good news for all I would think.

Even the CPTK guys are getting something: look here

I'm excited again for the first time in a long time..

Good show Avid.

[danander11]

Originally Posted by Dism

What exactly did you tell us, in that thread?

Native isn't TDM... you're right. It's quite clear about that, too.

It's not going to replace TDM, it's simply entry level. If you need TDM... you get TDM. Do you realize the userbase for Pro Tools is probably about 90% RTAS and 10% TDM? Most of us are used to it by now, and most TDM plugs also have RTAS versions.

That being said... it's still a far better solution than current HD1 and 2, if you put it in a decently modern computer.

Add to that that HD|N will not consume voices when using RTAS, (as HD does), makes it a HUGE (to borrow the current buzzword), step forward.

I get the I/O that I want at the resolution that I want, and most of HD's feature set... This works almost exactly as I wanted..

The best part is, it will only improve as time moves on...

[danander11]

Originally Posted by hue

Conversely, how do you think they are going to justify Complete Production Tool Kit for $2000?

Look here

[Dism]

Originally Posted by hue

Which makes it even WORSE for all those people who just recently bought HD 1-3 cards! You're just asserting what I was trying to get at. They sold their existing HD cards at a discount(probably still making huge profit) so that they could make room for new TDM cards. Yay for all those people who bought HD Accel cards that are soon to be obsolete. Thanks AVID! You're a real pal.

How is this different from any other company?

Cars get discounted at the end of the year... computer components drop... furniture stores, clothing stores.... every time a company is about to stock something new, they get rid of the old.

Plus, you seem to be confusing that deal, somehow. If you traded in an 003, you got into HD for less than half price. That's a pretty good deal for new hardware. Try getting a deal like that with a car.

Of course used stuff is cheaper... that's how it always is. Especially in anticipation of newer stuff. Soon, used HD systems are going to be as cheap as ever because everyone is in "SELL! SELL! SELL!" mode after news of new HD gear.

There's nothing new or unexpected about this strategy...

[danander11]

Originally Posted by hue

Which makes it even WORSE for all those people who just recently bought HD 1-3 cards! You're just asserting what I was trying to get at. They sold their existing HD cards at a discount(probably still making huge profit) so that they could make room for new TDM cards. Yay for all those people who bought HD Accel cards that are soon to be obsolete. Thanks AVID! You're a real pal.

When I got my UAD 1e card, I payed $130 for it. About 1/4 of the original selling price. And, rightly so. UAD was about to release the UAD-2. Fair is fair. You make something obsolete, sell it at it's value because everyone is going to want the newest and greatest.

I sort of agree, but most of me would answer this with this: The folks that bought the HD cards at a discount can still use them, and with more functionality than they would have with HD|N. These cards still have their value and will certainly be swallowed up by folks not caring for having the latest-and-greatest in the future..

It just like the folks that have nothing but complaints for LE.. We want some/all of these features, but I can still make music without them.

S/J has probably the best take on the whole thing... Hold fast!

[yamlan]

Originally Posted by Shan

ADC native code now exists. HD Native is the first to use this. This is pretty massive news for us native users. I highly doubt it will be exclusive to HD Native in my honest opinion. If we do a little more detective work, there's been some other very bold new moves alluded to in their advertising campaigns. Check this out from the HD Native promotion:

• But you can also use your Pro Tools|HD Native hardware with other Core Audio- and ASIO-compatible DAW software such as Logic, Nuendo, Live, Cubase, Reason, and Fruity Loops—with support for 64 channels of I/O—opening up even more creative avenues.

Here is another from the new Mbox launch promo:

• All-new drivers provide superior performance with Logic, Live, Record, Reason, Fruity Loops, Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar, and more. So go ahead, use your favorite third-party DAW from start to finish—or record with the included Pro Tools LE software

First off, to allow other DAWs the use of more than 8 I/O in the HD I/O, Omni I/O, 192 I/O and 96 I/O via HD Native is HUGE! It really is. Currently, and for the past decade, we could only use a maximum of 8 I/O with ASIO/Core Audio on their high end hardware when using other DAWs. Secondly, they are promoting this as hardware to be used with all DAWs, not just Pro Tools. For them to even mention and list off other DAWs in their marketing promotion is quite shocking. They have clearly changed their strategy and finally become a real hardware company without the proprietary modus operandi they once had in the past. Digidesign would never ever have done this with their old guard, period. We can now buy whatever hardware from them that is best for our own needs and use it with all our favorite DAWs and audio audio programs. A plus point is that the PT software also happens to come with it. It's becoming the real hardware tier that we've all been screaming for. These are the boldest moves I've ever seen them do and definitely get an acknowledgment and applause from myself.

These really are big bold changes. I'll remain optimistic with what they'll reveal to us "LE" users. With all the new changes that are clearly obvious, I highly doubt we'll be left out. We should be jumping for joy knowing that they took the first big step and finally made the ADC engine native. To me, this is the biggest news of the entire HD Native release.

As far as us LE users, I'd say they're saving the best surprises for last.

Shane

Great points that I totally missed! After reading that, and being a LE user long enough to agree on how significant these changes are, it does in fact look promising for LE. A concern is that LE will not make it to 8.5 keeping it ADC'less but with a few other new features, forcing a look at HDN. I just can't get too excited yet.

[tonepad]

Originally Posted by hue

Which makes it even WORSE for all those people who just recently bought HD 1-3 cards! You're just asserting what I was trying to get at. They sold their existing HD cards at a discount(probably still making huge profit) so that they could make room for new TDM cards. Yay for all those people who bought HD Accel cards that are soon to be obsolete. Thanks AVID! You're a real pal.

When I got my UAD 1e card, I payed $130 for it. About 1/4 of the original selling price. And, rightly so. UAD was about to release the UAD-2. Fair is fair. You make something obsolete, sell it at it's value because everyone is going to want the newest and greatest.

I'm not even concerned that I just added another Accel card over the Summer along with a Magma chassis to keep those perfectly usable PCIx cards working with a new MacPro, which I had buy because of other non Avid software related to my post work. As I said in an earlier post Avidigi has done a fantastic job of scaling...you have to see this. You probably don't work in post because if you did you would clearly see the need for the big dog TDM systems that we feed....150+ tracks of elements being mixed 5.1 to 7.1 along with stems forth foreign version and promo and LTRT...hope you get the picture. We need and use all the horsepower we can get... TDM/RTAS and that big ass mix engine. You also have to realize that 99% of all TV and film is now done on these big PT systems. Of course our work is very specialized and we are in the minority of users, but in terms of $ we may spend as much as the rest of the entire user base ( purely spec on my part so don't flame me ). I personally own 5 different PT systems along with my 3 editors who own their own rigs. 3 ADR rooms 1 Foley room and again our fully loaded icon mix stage run by 3 HD4 setups ( 2 for elements, 1 for record stems ). Sorry about the long wind here but I'm trying to set straight the picture of scale and get a little of the BS out of the way. Avid clearly understands how the product is used and I highly doubt that they will close the door on anybody...indeed they are just opening the door wider.

I fully concur that LE will indeed see some love very soon. It would be insane to cut loose that part of the user base.

Thx for listening.

[hue]

Originally Posted by Dism

How is this different from any other company?

Cars get discounted at the end of the year... computer components drop... furniture stores, clothing stores.... every time a company is about to stock something new, they get rid of the old.

Plus, you seem to be confusing that deal, somehow. If you traded in an 003, you got into HD for less than half price. That's a pretty good deal for new hardware. Try getting a deal like that with a car.

Of course used stuff is cheaper... that's how it always is. Especially in anticipation of newer stuff. Soon, used HD systems are going to be as cheap as ever because everyone is in "SELL! SELL! SELL!" mode after news of new HD gear.

There's nothing new or unexpected about this strategy...

Somehow you still missed the point. Do you really think those old HD cards are worth $3000 in parts and labor? No. I can't imagine they are worth a tenth of that when it comes down to it. Parts are cheap. And, old parts that are readily in production are even cheaper. And, labor? What labor? These are done almost exclusively by machine now. There may be someone checking and testing at the end of the line.

My point was, the "Discount" was barely a discount considering these cards are very soon to be obsolete. If they decide to ditch the remaining cards at a significant discount; a discount relative to their value: then I may decide to buy one. But, where does that leave all those people who bought HD cards at a considerably higher price point? Screwed. THAT was my point.