Universal Audio In Trouble

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by LDS

My experience echoes yours - I have never seen UAD-2 plugin instances use less DSP just because more DSP is added to the system. I suspect what M2E is describing is really just the effect of UAD Loadlock being disengaged.

If you have Loadlock turned off, the 480L will only use about 14% of a single DSP chip for the "B" machine algorithms. They are delays, rather than reverbs.

Ahhhh... that's interesting! I have DSP LoadLock checked so that would explain it. Maybe I'll experiment with turning it off just for giggles.

[M2E]

Originally Posted by LDS

My experience echoes yours - I have never seen UAD-2 plugin instances use less DSP just because more DSP is added to the system. I suspect what M2E is describing is really just the effect of UAD Loadlock being disengaged.

If you have Loadlock turned off, the 480L will only use about 14% of a single DSP chip for the "B" machine algorithms. They are delays, rather than reverbs.

Similarly, if you have Loadlock turned off an 1176LN Rev E will use 14.7% of a DSP chip under normal gain reduction. If you then hit the "OFF" pushbutton below the meter settings, it drops to 1%. It also means the plugin is doing no gain reduction at all.

DSP Loadlock is UAD's attempt at adding some degree of dynamic processing to DSP plugins.

Please explain this then?

[M2E]

Originally Posted by LDS

My experience echoes yours - I have never seen UAD-2 plugin instances use less DSP just because more DSP is added to the system. I suspect what M2E is describing is really just the effect of UAD Loadlock being disengaged.

If you have Loadlock turned off, the 480L will only use about 14% of a single DSP chip for the "B" machine algorithms. They are delays, rather than reverbs.

Similarly, if you have Loadlock turned off an 1176LN Rev E will use 14.7% of a DSP chip under normal gain reduction. If you then hit the "OFF" pushbutton below the meter settings, it drops to 1%. It also means the plugin is doing no gain reduction at all.

DSP Loadlock is UAD's attempt at adding some degree of dynamic processing to DSP plugins.

And this. I've never tried it without DSP Loadlock Off but, if it is what you say it does, then that would be great too.

Marc

[M2E]

This is what happens if I disable all my units except 1. Try to load more than 4.
Remember, the percentage of the overall system is what's really important. The more chips/cards you have the more you can run the more the overall percentage is. So, out of my overall 100% the Lexicon 480L only takes 3%.
I bet if I turn off my units, and just leave one on, the overall percentage will just show for that card/DSP percentage.

I hope this helps and shows you the truth about the UAD cards and how they actually work. At least for me.

Marc

[M2E]

Here is a pic of all the plugins that I actually use in my sessions of UAD.
I have a lot more than this but, I don't always use them. I just put them all on stereo tracks and I'm showing the CPU usage of the cards.
I don't use all of these plugins on every mix session of course but, they are there when I need them and if I need more, then I'll go into my "Unused Folder" to grab the other UAD plugin I may want to use ala Fairchild Legacy or the Manley Mu (Non-Mastering version) or the 1176SE version etc...
Again, I could still add a lot more plugins but this will give you a look at all of these at once. This is 59 plugins, all different plugins.

I hope this is clearing up any misconceptions about the UAD platform and how it works with multiple cards.

Now, of course, I can load 120+ Lexicon 480L's and 224 and API Visions etc, on my Macbook Pro M1 Pro but I'm showing that the UAD2 system is really great by itself. It's not as weak as most say it is.
Again, sure you can load a bunch more on a Mac/Window system but, you can also on a card system as well.

And just to think, I actually bought the UAD system just for Reverbs only as I thought I wouldn't be able to run more than 6 or 7 on this system the people talk on forums.

Marc

[James Steele]

Originally Posted by M2E

Remember, the percentage of the overall system is what's really important. The more chips/cards you have the more you can run the more the overall percentage is. So, out of my overall 100% the Lexicon 480L only takes 3%.

I think that's what was confusing for me. I wasn't talking about spread out amongst all the SHARC chips... but the percentage a single instance (for example the 480L plugin) takes up per SINGLE SHARC CHIP.

You said "The heaviest plugin was the Lexicon 480L taking up 16% on one chip of a quad."

The 480L uses 58% of one chip on my TB3 Satellite OCTO. Now if we want to do the math, I have 8 chips in my OCTO, or a total of 800%, which means the 480L is using 58/800ths of my total available DSP... or 7.25%.

If I had a QUAD, that would mean 58/400ths... or again if I do the math, that's about 14.5%. Very close to the 16% you cited. So I think your 16% is the percentage when spread across FOUR SHARC chips.

Load a project that has only one instance of the 480L, then open the UAD Control Panel then click "System Info" and it should show the individual SHARC chips. You can see in my attached graphic, the 480L is using 58% of DSP1 (Chip 1) but in the separate meter window above it's showing 7% overall. I've marked them with red boxes.

I think this explains the difference in our numbers. To see the "single chip" percentage you have to open the System Info pane.

[James Steele]

Oh... and it's worth mentioning that for any UAD-2 plugin that uses 51% or more DSP on a single SHARC chip... the total number of instances you can have at once is limited to the number of SHARC chips available since you can't spread a plug across two chips. I will never be able to run more than 8 480Ls on my OCTO, for example, because I can't get more than one instance per chip. (Not that I'd NEED to.)

[LDS]

Originally Posted by M2E

This is what happens if I disable all my units except 1. Try to load more than 4.
Remember, the percentage of the overall system is what's really important. The more chips/cards you have the more you can run the more the overall percentage is. So, out of my overall 100% the Lexicon 480L only takes 3%.
I bet if I turn off my units, and just leave one on, the overall percentage will just show for that card/DSP percentage.

I hope this helps and shows you the truth about the UAD cards and how they actually work. At least for me.

Marc

The percentage of overall system usage really isn't relevant. And that isn't my words, that is UA's words in the manual. The global system usage meter is nothing more than a global average of the usage across all DSP chips. It doesn't take into consideration the real world DSP requirements of initiating new DSP plugin instances. For example, stuff like a DSP plugin not being able to span multiple DSP chips. That is why the manual points you towards the System Information Panel for more precise resource availability based on individual DSP core loads.

The thing that matters is number of instances. Because DSP instances can't really span DSP chips, the number of instances you can achieve scales in a linear fashion to the amount of DSP you have in your overall system. The UAD User instance chart is very handy for this, and it really outlines how quickly a UAD system can be blitzed with relatively few plugin instances. Just four mono instances of SSL E Channel, a single instance of Culture Vulture and a single instance of 480L on a Quad card, and you won't be able to add a single instance more of those three plugins unless you add more DSP to the system.

[M2E]

You guys are killing me here. LOL
How do you not talk about the overall percentage when talking about a system and how good or bad it is and just base everything on one chip and what it can do and can't?
That doesn't make any sense! NONE! Unless you use and have a one card DSP system. Not judging...LOL
When I bought my Macbook Pro M1 Pro, I didn't base it on one DSP chip but on the overall use of how the DSP/GPU works together. When I use to mix on an HD system, I didn't base mixing from that one chip on the card and how many plugins it could do, but what plugins I could use on the full card as I knew, all (We'll back then not all) the plugins could share that one chip so, it is based on all the chips, together, that work together for one system even though some chips only worked on some plugins (Those were the days). If you have more chips, more CPU, and more ram, you can get more, and use more.
Luckily, UAD does an absolutely incredible job at showing you the use of your plugins and if you get more cards, what that means for each use of that said plugin.
Come on guys. This thinking and protecting some weird "UAD system doesn't have enough power" is crazy! Period!!!
Same as AVID, same as Waves Digigrid (Now that you can get multiple units) and same as Apple, if you want to use more plugins, you get a more powerful Mac with more CPU's.
I bought into that crap before and it stopped me from getting the now UAD system that is incredible because I listen to stuff like this that in the big picture doesn't mean anything. Looking at one chip and what it can and can not do is NOT how you are supposed to look at it. You all know this right?
Look, I'm not trying to protect UA or my UAD purchase a year ago but, for the new people to recording or new people trying to get into recording or into mixing, please DO NOT listen to this way of thinking. That's not how anyone professionally looks at it. I haven't since using Mix system back in 1998/9 and I don't now.
I have a Macbook Pro M1 Pro, UAD 5 card Quad system, Waves Digigrid, and Antelope Zen Go (Which sucks but plugins are good) and none of these do I think (well except Anetople because you can one use 4 instances but use 8 or 16 plugins per instance...LOL don't ask), what one chip use or what one plugin and how it will use that one chip and base the system use on it. It all works together to get the best mix/recording process I can get. Period.
I now don't look at my processing power at all or don't need to and THAT'S how mixing is supposed to be.
Look, I'm not trying to degrade you guys as I don't know you personally so please don't take it personally as if you knew me, you would know that I share, help, and do all I can for anyone in the music biz and have for 30+ years but, I now call out BS when I see it and hear it cause, that is the right thing to do especially for the new people that are getting into this profession and don't know what is best and what really is used and how it's used.
I know that now, so, that's all I'm doing since I now own this type of system as in UAD. I've also own Pro Tools Mix, HD systems as well in the past.
I also love to learn and get great advice from others hence the reason I'm here and GS under the same name.

This is me: www.plugmeinaudio.com (Updating my SSL at the moment - Keeps going out through Host Gator - They suck!)

Thanks, Marc

[LDS]

Originally Posted by M2E

You guys are killing me here. LOL
How do you not talk about the overall percentage when talking about a system and how good or bad it is and just base everything on one chip and what it can do and can't?
That doesn't make any sense! NONE! Unless you use and have a one card DSP system. Not judging...LOL
When I bought my Macbook Pro M1 Pro, I didn't base it on one DSP chip but on the overall use of how the DSP/GPU works together. When I use to mix on an HD system, I didn't base mixing from that one chip on the card and how many plugins it could do, but what plugins I could use on the full card as I knew, all (We'll back then not all) the plugins could share that one chip so, it is based on all the chips, together, that work together for one system even though some chips only worked on some plugins (Those were the days). If you have more chips, more CPU, and more ram, you can get more, and use more.
Luckily, UAD does an absolutely incredible job at showing you the use of your plugins and if you get more cards, what that means for each use of that said plugin.
Come on guys. This thinking and protecting some weird "UAD system doesn't have enough power" is crazy! Period!!!
Same as AVID, same as Waves Digigrid (Now that you can get multiple units) and same as Apple, if you want to use more plugins, you get a more powerful Mac with more CPU's.
I bought into that crap before and it stopped me from getting the now UAD system that is incredible because I listen to stuff like this that in the big picture doesn't mean anything. Looking at one chip and what it can and can not do is NOT how you are supposed to look at it. You all know this right?
Look, I'm not trying to protect UA or my UAD purchase a year ago but, for the new people to recording or new people trying to get into recording or into mixing, please DO NOT listen to this way of thinking. That's not how anyone professionally looks at it. I haven't since using Mix system back in 1998/9 and I don't now.
I have a Macbook Pro M1 Pro, UAD 5 card Quad system, Waves Digigrid, and Antelope Zen Go (Which sucks but plugins are good) and none of these do I think (well except Anetople because you can one use 4 instances but use 8 or 16 plugins per instance...LOL don't ask), what one chip use or what one plugin and how it will use that one chip and base the system use on it. It all works together to get the best mix/recording process I can get. Period.
I now don't look at my processing power at all or don't need to and THAT'S how mixing is supposed to be.
Look, I'm not trying to degrade you guys as I don't know you personally so please don't take it personally as if you knew me, you would know that I share, help, and do all I can for anyone in the music biz and have for 30+ years but, I now call out BS when I see it and hear it cause, that is the right thing to do especially for the new people that are getting into this profession and don't know what is best and what really is used and how it's used.
I know that now, so, that's all I'm doing since I now own this type of system as in UAD. I've also own Pro Tools Mix, HD systems as well in the past.
I also love to learn and get great advice from others hence the reason I'm here and GS under the same name.

This is me: www.plugmeinaudio.com (Updating my SSL at the moment - Keeps going out through Host Gator - They suck!)

Thanks, Marc

But you seem to be trying to "call out the BS" while totally misrepresenting everyone else's posts entirely?

People call UAD under-powered because you get very little performance gain in return for your money. That is just the nature of a DSP product that has remained relatively unchanged in its last 14 years of existence. I mentioned it a few posts ago, but you seem to have chosen not just to ignore it, but to offer the most insane retort of "just throw money at more UAD cards!!"

That is totally bonkers.

You aren't raising an argument about how powerful UAD is. You are raising an argument for how willing you are to splash your cash to make it work... and that my friend, is a very different thing. It is the kind of rationale that leads someone to buying an Macbook M1 Pro Laptop and 5x Quad DSP cards with a street value of $11,000aud around my neck of the woods... without considering the very real potential that the bloke that you are saying is "making no sense" just built a desktop DAW for $2400aud that outperforms your whole entire setup. It is for that exact reason why I sold my HDX2 system last year. I happily turned those two HDX cards into a Trinnov and a stereo U87ai -> Hardy M2 -> DBX 160SL dialogue chain for a project starting next month. There are obviously a lot of benefits when you consider the performance you actually get for your money.

I canned my gearspace account probably about 12 months ago. You will find me on a bunch of the usual audio engineering specific facebook groups though, particularly the atmos production related ones. That is where someone posted some interesting info about DAW-specific CPU performance which I have attached below. For whatever reason, one thing lead to another and I have a nice new i9-13900K machine here. It runs Ventura and it scores 372 in the Logic Benchmark test, well beyond an M1 Ultra, and just a hair shy of the performance of a $25,000AUD 28-core Mac Pro. It is the KISS philosophy of DAWs really. Choose the best performing components you can, and you will end up needing far fewer of them.

https://music-prod.com/logic-pro-benchmarks/


I used HD3 Accel for quite a few years before switching to HDX2. What I have learnt with this new machine is that if you have enough native processing power to do what you need to do, adding DSP to the system can actually send it horribly backwards.