Mac Mini

[cccy]

Hi guys. First of all, if my post is in the wrong section of the forum, I apologize and hope someone can move this to the right section - I'd be much obliged.

I'm currently taking my first steps into film score/commercial media composition and have decided to move on to Pro Tools. Thus far, the Mac Mini seems to be the best choice for me, as I am a student with a limited budget. Plus, I already own a nice LED screen and the basic peripherals.

A lot of people are really negative about the Mac Mini and since I'm not very knowledgeable on how computers work I thought I'd ask for opinions. Do you think I could work comfortably on this particular computer? About the CPU - is it the GHz, the cores or the 'generation' (i5, i7)? Would 8GB of RAM be enough?

Also, does anybody have experience with the E-MU 0404? I'm guessing I'll have to replace that as well, AVID Fast Track Duo sounds like a reasonable upgrade.

Hope I'm not asking too many questions but I could really use some advice ATM. Thank you in advance!

[zedhed]

I'm not a Mac guy, but generally speaking the bigger the project the more power needed....Mac or PC.

If you're going to be running large track counts with lots of plugs and/or VI's then the mini may not be up to the task.

I'm sure some Mac guys will chime in and give some advice. You're doing the right thing by seeking advice before diving in and buying so hang tight until you get the right advice.

Best of luck.

[albee1952]

My 2 cents only, but the i7 quad mini could do a nice job, as long as you keep it cool. You need a separate 7200 rpm drive for recording(your sessions get saved to it). 8GB is okay, but 16GB is better. As for interfaces, I can't recommend any of the Fast Trak boxes as the drivers just don't seem to be well sorted. The Focusrite stuff would be what I would look into. Also, remember that the new mini's have no optical drive so you may want to buy one(either the Apple drive that matches, or most any USB2 optical drive). Since you will use a USB port for your iLok, optical drive, etc., you might consider a FW or Thunderbolt drive for sessions. You can use a hub for some things, but I would NOT put an interface on it.

[cccy]

Thanks for the info guys. I don't think I'll be using too many tracks... How many are too many though?

@albee1952: 16GB of RAM will push me way beyond my budget, I wouldn't pull that trigger unless I know that it is absolutely necessary... I was also looking at the Focusrite Saffire 6 USB - what's your take on that one? As for the external hard drive, I have one, it's brand new but I'm positive that it's 5,400 rpm.. would that be too big of an issue?

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by cccy

Thanks for the info guys. I don't think I'll be using too many tracks... How many are too many though?

When you start to hear pops and clicks and can't mix or record anymore

Originally Posted by cccy

.. I was also looking at the Focusrite Saffire 6 USB - what's your take on that one?

I'm an old school guy if its not a card it should be firewire (however many people use the eleven rack just fine<it's a USB also>)

Originally Posted by cccy

As for the external hard drive, I have one, it's brand new but I'm positive that it's 5,400 rpm.. would that be too big of an issue?

Could be a show stopper - don't use parts that are not recommended by the oem b/c if you do you may find out why they were not recommended in the first place

Usb3.0 drives are great - I don't know if the new minis have them but if not go Thunder bolt

[KineticSound]

I agree with all of the above. I've been using a series of Mac Mini's for music production for years, first on Logic Pro and now on Pro Tools.

My current machine is one of the i7's with 8GB RAM. It handles sessions with 20+ tracks just fine, typically with 1-6 VI's running at a time and often multiple plugins on each track. Depending on the plugs, I'm typically running at less than 35% load on the CPU.

The stock Mini comes with a 5400rpm internal drive. You can technically record to this (and I have), but prefer to record to a 7200rpm external box connected via Thunderbolt as others have suggested.

I do not have experience with the Focusrite interfaces mentioned above, but can say that the Apogee Duet was the most stable interface I've used on a Mini. I currently use a Fast Track C600, and while it has more inputs, its drivers have been less reliable.

[demodigi]

Hi cccy,

Originally Posted by cccy

A lot of people are really negative about the Mac Mini and since I'm not very knowledgeable on how computers work I thought I'd ask for opinions. Do you think I could work comfortably on this particular computer? About the CPU - is it the GHz, the cores or the 'generation' (i5, i7)? Would 8GB of RAM be enough?

A lot of people think are simply wrong because they don't actually make any real life test (just looked at specifications and prices).

I purchased a 2012 MacMini Core I7 @2,3GHz one month ago and I am using Pro Tools for over 15 years, so I can give you a little feedback. This machine is really very powerful. 3X to 4X more powerful than my old C2D@2,4GHz.

The negative point is when you want to add a 2nd Harddrive, you must de-assemble the whole computer (and purchase special HHD cable and tools).

The positive point is it is very quiet and don't require lots of space (size of an half 19in 1U rack). It also have lots of connectors (USB3/FW800/Ethernet/TB/UDMI) compared to a mac laptop (and more "up-to-date" than MacPros).

* About CPU choice : Core i7 is way more powerful then core i5
Core i5 = 2 cores (no hyperthreading)
Core i7 = 4 cores (with hyperthreading) = 8 virtual cores (seen by OS X and Pro Tools)

Quad Core @2,3GHz is already very powerful so I don't think 2,6GHz option is really useful in your case.

* About HDD :
Even with the 1To/5400RPM internal drive (incl. with core i7), performances with Pro Tools are great.

I made some tests with PT11.0.1 ("standard"/non-HD) and was able to record
- 96 mono tracks+1 channelstrip per channel @48kHz (buffer at 32 samples)
- 48 mono tracks+1 channelstrip per channel @96kHz (buffer at 64 samples)
without any issues with this drive (20min of record).
- I was using all 30in/30out of my sound board (I use a RME UFX sound board connected with USB2).
- Even with stereo tracks with the same trackcount (but only 1 stereo out) is fine (but it is the limit).

(Note that I never been able to use stable 32 samples buffer size with my older computer).

Of course, a 2nd HDD is highly recommended (especially for critical recording, like live stiff) but if you want to begin with the internal drive it is possible with "real world" student projects. If you want to use external drives, you'll have to use Firewire (400 or 800) or USB3 (not USB2).

Very important : you will have to create a 2nd partition on the internal drive, dedicated to audio projects (never record audio on the system partition with pro tools or any DAW).

If you want to use sample library, a dedicated drive/partition for those is also highly recommanded.

So, to begin with a short budget, either
- System+samples on internal drive (2 partitions) + Audio on external drive
or
- System+audio on internal drive (2 partitions)
or (better)

Again, not recommended but possible.

* About RAM: 8GB is really the minimum if you want to work with PT11. And 6GB is the minimum to activate the Avid Video Engine also (important if you ant to work for film scoring).

Originally Posted by cccy

@albee1952: 16GB of RAM will push me way beyond my budget, I wouldn't pull that trigger unless I know that it is absolutely necessary... I was also looking at the Focusrite Saffire 6 USB - what's your take on that one? As for the external hard drive, I have one, it's brand new but I'm positive that it's 5,400 rpm.. would that be too big of an issue?

If you want to use big sound bank libraries (NI Kontakt, EW Play, etc...), I would also recommend to take 16GB from the beginning.

But don't buy it on A...Store, it is way too expensive. Find a good local mac dealer (buy only RAM modules tested for mac) and it will be way cheaper.
RAM is really easy to change in the MacMini. If you buy 8GB, you will have to buy 16GB really soon, and you will "lose" your old 8GB (you can sell it later but you will lose money).

But it is up to you (and your budget). So to me => 1. Core i7 first, 2. RAM : 16GB (or 8GB mini), 3. HDD upgrades (external or 2nd internal drive).

[humpback]

+1 for the Mini. Mini's have been my main machine for over 2 years now - my first was the last C2D - and even it was a great little machine. My current is an i7 (I have 16 GB RAM, but 8 is a fine starting place). I run PT with it every day. I have the Fusion drive in mine (great little speed bump, specially on start up and app launch). I run 4 external HD's with a FW hub (the AV Nitro model - rock solid after 4 years), and I have 2 USB 3.0 (powered) hubs to handle simple MIDI connections, iloks, and assorted other USB-based peripherals (including an external CD/DVD drive when needed). I run two monitors. Thunderbolt handles one monitor and a UA Apollo.

The machine is dead quiet, small, and tackles all its studio duties (VO, music tracking and mixing, &c) and non-studio duties with no problem. Underrated machine that will serve you well, IMO.

Best,

Nathan

[cccy]

Wow guys, I have no words. Thank you for being so incredibly helpful and informative. I have about one more week to think well about it.... but your insight has been invaluable.

One more question.. would [purchasing the 4GB version and] upgrading to 16GB by myself void my warranty in any way? Does anybody know where can I buy something safe, RAM-wise? I know I sound like a complete noob but I'm afraid of what I don't know much about.

Thanks again!

[cccy]

I should also mention that I'm definitely buying the computer itself from apple store online, as my University provides a rather sweet discount.